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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 20:49:12 GMT
(Anyone taking place in the 500 page sprint should note that we are sprinting The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo this weekend. I have just started and have very good chances of finishing by Monday. Or Tuesday. Thursday at the latest.) I finished it last September. Do I medal blue-shifted gold? There was a young lady named White,
Who could travel much faster than light.
...She departed one day,
...In a relative way,
And came back the previous night. |
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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 20:53:21 GMT
I am half-thinking of joining in, but, on the other hand, I'm not keen on fiction. I accidentally bought fiction recently (I thought it was history) but it's a sort of fictional history thing. It's 'The Brige over the Drina' by Ivo Andric, which is turning out to be excellent so far. I can also recommend the book I read last night (it's a one night kind of a book) which is a very to-the-point biography of Tito by Neil Barnett. Well-written and no arseing about. Top bananas. Are you interested in Serbian history, then?  Beware of the Black Hand. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Nov 20, 2010 21:17:59 GMT
I am half-thinking of joining in, but, on the other hand, I'm not keen on fiction. I accidentally bought fiction recently (I thought it was history) but it's a sort of fictional history thing. It's 'The Brige over the Drina' by Ivo Andric, which is turning out to be excellent so far. I can also recommend the book I read last night (it's a one night kind of a book) which is a very to-the-point biography of Tito by Neil Barnett. Well-written and no arseing about. Top bananas. Are you interested in Serbian history, then? Beware of the Black Hand. Have you read it? It's a lovely book. But yes, for sure the Serbs were treated very badly in Ottoman Bosnia. Like the blacks in South Africa. Yet somehow in the UK we have this view of the Serbs as dominating pariahs. Go figure. |
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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 21:25:21 GMT
Have you read it? It's a lovely book. But yes, for sure the Serbs were treated very badly in Ottoman Bosnia. Like the blacks in South Africa. Yet somehow in the UK we have this view of the Serbs as dominating pariahs. Go figure. No, I haven't read the book you mentioned, but I know about the Black Hand, Princip, and all that. Are you saying that the Serbs haven't been pretty successful in helping to make themselves pariahs over the years, one way or another? |
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Post by riotgrrl on Nov 20, 2010 21:32:42 GMT
Have you read it? It's a lovely book. But yes, for sure the Serbs were treated very badly in Ottoman Bosnia. Like the blacks in South Africa. Yet somehow in the UK we have this view of the Serbs as dominating pariahs. Go figure. No, I haven't read the book you mentioned, but I know about the Black Hand, Princip, and all that. Are you saying that the Serbs haven't been pretty successful in helping to make themselves pariahs over the years, one way or another? When did the Serbs become pariahs? When their empire was so rich and just that people ate their meals with golden cultery? When they stood as the frontline of Christendom against the Islamic threat, for centuries. When they were the plucky state which Austria-Hungary tried to destroy in order to start the first world war? When they held out the hand of friendship to the Croatians, Montenegrins and Slovenians to pull them into an independent state free of Ottoman or Hapsburg? When they were the only subsequently-Communist country to defeat the Nazis on their own, without the help of the Red army? When they were a key part of the Yugoslav state which rejected Stalinism? When they tried to hold together the Yugoslav state that had brought togetter and in peace the warring Balkan tribes for their longest single period of prosperity and peace? When, exactly, was it that the Serbs became the pariahs? |
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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 21:43:04 GMT
When, exactly, was it that the Serbs became the pariahs? Just a wild guess -- 28 June 1914. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Nov 20, 2010 21:49:03 GMT
When, exactly, was it that the Serbs became the pariahs? Just a wild guess -- 28 June 1914. No way! You should see some of the British Isles propaganda from 1914/15 about the Serbs. They were the plucky little nation fighting on the mountains, etc. (You can see that romanticism still in the likes of Fitrzoy MacLean's books; he fought with Tito and the partisans.) At the Foreign office (? not sure ?) there is a huge painting from the early 20th century showing Queen Victoria sheltering and supporting the brave Serbs (depicted as a strong, male child.) In England the womens church groups were forever collecting for the brave Serbs, etc. Really, no. Although, and this is very interesting, the date you cite is St Vitus day. That is also the date of the Battle of Kosovo (the defining moment in Serb history) and also of Milosevic's speech in Kosovo to the Serbs ('nobody should be allowed to beat you') and also the date he died in the Hague waiting for his War Crimes Trial and has also been the date of other important stuff like constitutional change. Tell me that is not interesting . . and I'll call you a liar. There is no history in the whole world more interesting than the history of the Balkans. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Nov 20, 2010 21:50:10 GMT
OMG - Phil 'The Power' Taylor got beat and has gone out of the darts. This is (I am told) sensational.
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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 22:02:17 GMT
Tell me that is not interesting . . and I'll call you a liar. Then I'm a liar. Germany. Especially pre-Germany. In particular the trading network of North European cities known as The Hansa. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Nov 20, 2010 22:03:50 GMT
Tell me that is not interesting . . and I'll call you a liar. Then I'm a liar. Germany. Especially pre-Germany. In particular the trading network of North European cities known as The Hansa. I know nothing of this history. Recommend a couple of books and I will read it. But I am extremly cynical about the proposition that it might prove more interesting than the history of the Balkans. |
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Post by Weyland on Nov 20, 2010 22:28:56 GMT
I know nothing of this history. Recommend a couple of books and I will read it. But I am extremly cynical about the proposition that it might prove more interesting than the history of the Balkans. Let me think about it. The best books are in German and Dutch. Probably Swedish, Polish, and Russian as well, but I can't read those. I've probably learned more from the Web and visiting some of the Hansa cities, which tend to have lively Hansa museums. The key players were Lübeck, Visby, and Hamburg, with some important centres at Novgorod, Bergen, Riga, Brugge, and Deventer. And a few hundred other towns and cities. Branch offices in London, Kings Lynn, and Newcastle. I think it's healthy to have a very strong, even approaching obsessive, interest in something like the Balkans, the Hansa, Bridge, or gardening. But not X-Factor or Pokemon or fashion, obviously. Some things are just empty shells.  |
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Post by Weyland on Nov 21, 2010 18:51:09 GMT
OMG - Phil 'The Power' Taylor got beat and has gone out of the darts. This is (I am told) sensational. Did the Dutch walk it again? |
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