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Post by trubble on Dec 29, 2008 17:41:04 GMT
I was listening to the radio headlines and heard that the EU had condemned the latest Israeli attacks in the Gaza. We condemned them earlier this year too but I think we've been condemning Palestinian ones also.
Does anyone here know our official stance/take on the conflict?
Perhaps we are just the Culture Club of the World...?
'War war is stupid and people are stupid
And love means nothing in some strange quarters
War war is stupid and people are stupid
And I heard them banging on hearts and fingers
War!
People fill the world with narrow confidence
Like a child at birth, a man with no defence
What's mine's my own, I won't give it to you
No matter what you say, no matter what you do
Now we're fighting in our hearts
Fighting in the streets
Won't somebody help me?
(Chorus)
Man is far behind in the search of something new
Like a Philistine, we're burning witches too
This world of hate must be designed for you
It matters what you say, it matters what you do
Now we're fighting in our hearts
Fighting in the streets
Won't somebody help me?
(Chorus)
After the bird has flown
He walked ten thousand miles back home
You can't do that to me, no, you can't do that to me
You can't do that to me, no, you can't do that to me
War!
In this heart of mine, I'll find a place for you
For black or white, for grown-up children too
Now we're fighting in our hearts
Fighting in the streets
Won't somebody help me?'
~ Sarkozy, Dec 2008.
(They don't write them like that anymore.)
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 29, 2008 17:56:31 GMT
Same as the EU policy on everything...totally all over the place due to a massive mix of countries with different views on the Jews. My policy is complete support for a nation that has been on the front line of Islamist attacks for several decades.  AH |
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Post by trubble on Dec 29, 2008 18:05:31 GMT
Where can I find an Idiot's Guide to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict please?
I know nothing about it of any worth.
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Post by Patrick on Dec 29, 2008 18:06:58 GMT
Well, I have read - that by two or three years ago twice the number of Palestinians had been killed compared to the number of Israelis. My problem is that i don't see Israel as a country full of "Israelis" but merely a country full of retired Americans. Israel is for the US what the Costa Blanca was to Britain. Witness a news report the other night with this fat American Woman who moved there just three years ago who was adamant that it was her right to be there!  If I was an American citizen I'd frankly be a bit pissed off that my taxes go to waste about $70bn a year on that country. What they ought to do really is cut the two countries out - float them into the middle of a very large ocean - or better still out into space and just let 'em get on with it. |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 29, 2008 18:08:43 GMT
Where can I find an Idiot's Guide to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict please? I know nothing about it of any worth. After you please! Actually Some say it's all our (sorry - the British's) fault for the way we divided the place up in 1948. |
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Post by trubble on Dec 29, 2008 18:23:13 GMT
Patrick, when Americans are saying it's their right to be there you can understand Palestinians - whose family home has been confiscated and who have been relocated so that she could be there - being miffed.
I used to say that about Norn Iron but it's no good, they never do it, so we just have to think of another plan.
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Post by trubble on Dec 29, 2008 18:24:36 GMT
Actually Some say it's all our (sorry - the British's) fault for the way we divided the place up in 1948. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 29, 2008 18:24:48 GMT
Patrick, over 1 million "Israeli's" are actually arab muslims....another several million are born Israeli Jews, there are thousands of black African Jews and Russian Jews and Jews from all over the planet...just because you see a few loadmouth Yanks on the news, it doesn't mean that it's full of Americans. Israel has (or had) an open door policy for any Jews, wherever they come from.
As for more Palies dying than Israeli's, it's a strawman argument...every single rocket fired into Israel is DESIGNED to kill, they are AIMED at civilian areas, they are TIMED usually to coincide with school journeys.
If I throw a brick at somebody or shoot at them with a gun and miss, the intention is still the same...
Edit: Palistine also gets billions of pounds/dollars of aid every year.
AH
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Post by trubble on Dec 29, 2008 18:28:30 GMT
Patrick, over 1 million "Israeli's" are actually arab muslims....another several million are born Israeli Jews, there are thousands of black African Jews and Russian Jews and Jews from all over the planet...just because you see a few loadmouth Yanks on the news, it doesn't mean that it's full of Americans. Israel has (or had) an open door policy for any Jews, wherever they come from. As for more Palies dying than Israeli's, it's a strawman argument...every single rocket fired into Israel is DESIGNED to kill, they are AIMED at civilian areas, they are TIMED usually to coincide with school journeys. If I throw a brick at somebody or shoot at them with a gun and miss, the intention is still the same... AH do you mean imported, just as the American Jews are imported to israel?? Now, I heard some woman- perhaps Israel's Foreign Minister?- saying that they were attacking a military target but that the military bases were placed within civilian residences so it was unavoidable - I can't recall if she said 'on purpose' or not -. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 29, 2008 18:33:21 GMT
Current death toll...
320 - Official Gaza toll (source: UN)
62 civilians in Gaza (source: UN)
(which works out at 258 NON-civilians killed)
Do any of you believe that the Hamas terrorists would go out of their way to avoid civilian deaths? Honestly?
Let's be realistic, if Israel wanted to, it could target every large public/civilian building/school in palestine and kill 10's of 1000's of innocent civilians within 24 hours...and do the same again the next day...if that was their intention.
I think Israel's restraint is comendable...we annihilated Germany when they launched rockets at our country...and we didn't go out of our way to minimize civilian casualties either
AH
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 29, 2008 18:38:03 GMT
Trubbs, Islamic terrorists have always hidden among innocent...it's great propaganda when the Israeli's hit back and innocents are killed...our own forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have to cope with this every day.
AH
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Post by Patrick on Dec 29, 2008 18:52:07 GMT
Of course I'm not so naive to think "one" American quoted off the news etc etc. It's a theory I've developed over many years of hearing extraordinary amounts of accents from there that don't exactly sound local. In the same way that I keep hearing posh Southerners taking their little daughters round Sainsbury's, buying them goodies for their first year at University! I'm seriously thinking of launching a rocket attack on Islington,  |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 29, 2008 18:58:08 GMT
I used to say that about Norn Iron but it's no good, they never do it, so we just have to think of another plan. I used to think send all the trouble makers off to their own planet and let 'em sort themselves out. Of course we tried that in the 1600s with America and look where that got us!   Mind you, didn't work out too badly with Australia, I suppose. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 29, 2008 19:05:01 GMT
Mind you, didn't work out too badly with Australia, I suppose. "Aviatrix" 'nuff said. ;D AH |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 30, 2008 12:18:17 GMT
The UN have as usual sided against those pesky hook nosed Jooz... news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7804218.stmIt's now an "Atrocity" to use modern weapons apparently, maybe the Israeli's should go back to indiscriminate WWII style carpet bombing with non-modern weapons to satisfy the UN's pro-muslim fetish. What a crock of shit! I don't see the UN crying about atrocities when a bus full of school children is blown up by Palies, or a cafe or disco is bombed...but woe betide those Jooz if they defend themselves.  The UN's new pamphlet on the evil of the Juden  AH |
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Post by trubble on Jan 15, 2009 15:23:42 GMT
No one ever did get me that Idiot's Guide to the Conflict in Gaza that I asked for, so I still don't understand it all, but hey, come on, I think the point has been made by Israel now. Time for Israel to stop this attack and try talking again?
All in favour say Aye.
Aye.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 15, 2009 17:55:14 GMT
Palestine was part of Ottoman Empire. Various peoples, including Jews and Arabs lived there.
World War 1 - collapse of Ottoman Empire, UK accidentally gets responsibility for Palestine - 'the British mandate'.
Thing to note: At no stage was there a nation state called Palestine with a Palestinian Govt.
World War 2 - holocaust - European Jews all decide it's time to move to Israel. They do. It becomes Israel and UN recognises nation (out of guilt?)
Lots of Jews go there. Israel says (and this is still the case) that anyone anywhere in the world who is Jewish can come and be a citizen of Israel. The Arabs get a bit pushed out the way.
In the 1960s various Arab State and Israel have a few wars, and bits of territory change hands (hence all the '67 borders' stuff). Israel wins.
Palestinians get annoyed at having land taken away from them and put in refugee camps. None of the other Arab nations open their borders to let the Arabs from what is now Israel in there. The Palestinian Arabs are fkd.
They misbehave as a result. Israel responds.
Roughly.
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Post by Patrick on Jan 15, 2009 18:52:49 GMT
Lots of Jews go there. Israel says (and this is still the case) that anyone anywhere in the world who is Jewish can come and be a citizen of Israel. Mostly Americans, which is why they fund it by about $70bn a year.(joke) Didn't the UK help broker an agreement of sorts in 1949 as part of the division process? |
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 15, 2009 18:59:39 GMT
Lots of Jews go there. Israel says (and this is still the case) that anyone anywhere in the world who is Jewish can come and be a citizen of Israel. Mostly Americans, which is why they fund it by about $70bn a year.(joke) Didn't the UK help broker an agreement of sorts in 1949 as part of the division process? Too much detail! I have no idea. My Jewish ex-colleague says that, since the fall of the USSR and the liberation of the Soviet Jews, Israel has completely changed. He says it used to be 'like America', with most of the new Israelis coming from there, but now there are many, many Russians who have come to Israel, adn that they are far less liberal and more orthodox and hardline than the American immigrants were. He doesn't like Israel so much these days; says the vibe is completely changed. |
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Post by trubble on Jan 15, 2009 19:29:44 GMT
Palestine was part of Ottoman Empire. Various peoples, including Jews and Arabs lived there. World War 1 - collapse of Ottoman Empire, UK accidentally gets responsibility for Palestine - 'the British mandate'. Thing to note: At no stage was there a nation state called Palestine with a Palestinian Govt. World War 2 - holocaust - European Jews all decide it's time to move to Israel. They do. It becomes Israel and UN recognises nation (out of guilt?) Lots of Jews go there. Israel says (and this is still the case) that anyone anywhere in the world who is Jewish can come and be a citizen of Israel. The Arabs get a bit pushed out the way. In the 1960s various Arab State and Israel have a few wars, and bits of territory change hands (hence all the '67 borders' stuff). Israel wins. Palestinians get annoyed at having land taken away from them and put in refugee camps. None of the other Arab nations open their borders to let the Arabs from what is now Israel in there. The Palestinian Arabs are fkd. They misbehave as a result. Israel responds. Roughly. Thank you.  |
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A.P.P.S
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