Massive regeneration for local area.

[Alpha Hooligan]

I'm not really a local busy body, but this...

www.wirralwaters.co.uk/content/news.php?id=926

...is pretty good news for "the local people" and my community in general.

Damn near £5 billion quids worth of regeneration on my side of the Mersey alone, 10's of 1000's of jobs over the next few decades and some BIG-ASS sky scrapers (Yes!!!) and a general modernisation of the area (that really needs some regeneration and generally tidying up, some parts of the sea front area are shabby to say the least).

Green lighted today - Quite looking forward to seeing how it goes.


AH

[Patrick]

It'll be lovely - if it works! - After all, parts of Warrington seem still undeveloped and derelict following the big "Move to Warrington Runcorn" push in the 1980's?

Another interesting anomaly is the fact that "regeneration" projects seem to be springing back into life all over the place. Three planned housing schemes round here have kicked back into life - or have been seen to attract interest from developers again that were mothballed in the beginning of "The Downturn". I'd say it has nothing to do with the "new Government" and more to do with the bloody mindedness of the building industry.

[aubrey]

They're supposed to be doing something like that round here as well (not "Massive" though).

[Patrick]

The vision for Lower Marsh is to create a radically improved public space at the heart of Waterloo and to reconnect Lower Marsh with the surrounding area.

Trouble can be that (after all the years of mistakes) a Developers view of a "radically improved public space" doesn't always fit in with what the public actually wants!

I'm an old cynic aren't I!

A street over in Morecambe was redeveloped recently with the usual re-bricking and having the road and pavement at the same level but with bollards dividing the line between. It started off well - but it wasn't long before traders rue-ed the day that cars were limited from there citing falling sales and some threatening to move out.

For a while in the mid nineties in the U.S - one or two small town 'shopping malls' were pulled down and the streets opened up again because over there the idle sods like to drive up to their shops - jump out - jump back in again and drive on to the next one!

[Alpha Hooligan]

There is nothing to really disrupt on the front, Pat, it's a bit desolate, grotty and miserable IMO.

Anyway, the last time so many jobs were created in this area was probably several generations ago, so our councillers and politicos have quite rightly grasped this with both hands...not often somebody offers to lay down darn near 5 billion quid on redevelopment around these parts.


AH

[Patrick]

What intrigues me with nearly all these developments is the sparkly propaganda usually accompanied by the phrase "A lively mix of Luxury Apartments, shops, offices, bars and cafés."

I mean!! Just how many "bars and cafés" does a town need?

It's time to radically rethink our view of what a town, or district, is made up of.

[housesparrow]

It sounds great...but as for new jobs - well,it will be a hugely expensive way to spend money unless it attracts industry.

I take the point, stated in the article, that businesses won't commit unless firm proposals are in place, but (as Pat points out) it could all be for nought.

[riotgrrl]

Nov 30, 2010 20:15:31 GMT Patrick said:

What intrigues me with nearly all these developments is the sparkly propaganda usually accompanied by the phrase "A lively mix of Luxury Apartments, shops, offices, bars and cafés."

I mean!! Just how many "bars and cafés" does a town need?

It's time to radically rethink our view of what a town, or district, is made up of.

Well what would you have instead?

[Patrick]

It's the "cafés and bars" bit that amuses me most. Especially in areas to be generated where there is absolutely no point in providing that sort of service. We have had fifteen years of developers thinking "cafés and bars" are the answer to everything - when in fact it's a disastrous stop gap for people with no imagination and little in the way of design skill. They tend to keep quiet about it these days but just a few years ago every single development contained those two words as if they were vital services.

It is no longer a promise of something new and regenerated - it's merely a label to stick on a new building. Like sticking "Sugar - Coffee and Tea" on your storage jars! Here is a building - It's a new building - Ergo we must have a café and a bar in it.

Still. It's all we've got left now isn't it?

[riotgrrl]

But Patrick, what would you prefer (to cafes and bars)?

You can't just be negative and say what you don't like. You have to say what you would put in their place.

It's just not fluffy otherwise.

[housesparrow]

Can I suggest green spaces: peaceful parks for office workers to escape to, places for children to play, places for wildlife?

[jean]

Let it revert to how it was when Sir Gawain passed through, before his confrontation with the Green Knight:

The wilderness of Wirral:
few lived there
Who loved with a good heart
either God or man...

It's a bit of a wasteland now, to tell the truth. We have all the cafés and bars you need over this side.

[housesparrow]

Dunno about that Jean. Sounds like social engineering to me. Anyway, do you have enough bad atheists to fill it?

[aubrey]

Shops that aren't chains. Lower Marsh has quite a few of these already, though. It looks a bit grotty - The Guardian described it as full of chi chi clothes shops and betting shops. I don't know what chi chi means, and there are only two betting shops and a (useful) Iceland. Also a chinese food place where I have been told you can get chips and rice on the same plate.

It is a short road, but there is a lot on it.

I'd rather have pubs than bars. I'm scared to go into a place that looks like a bar.

[riotgrrl]

Dec 4, 2010 10:38:49 GMT aubrey said:

Shops that aren't chains. Lower Marsh has quite a few of these already, though. It looks a bit grotty - The Guardian described it as full of chi chi clothes shops and betting shops. I don't know what chi chi means, and there are only two betting shops and a (useful) Iceland. Also a chinese food place where I have been told you can get chips and rice on the same plate.

It is a short road, but there is a lot on it.

I'd rather have pubs than bars. I'm scared to go into a place that looks like a bar.

Don't understand. What's the difference between a pub and a bar?

[jean]

Pubs are more traditional - frosted glass windows, sawdust on the floor, old men and spittoons everywhere.

But there are lots of different sorts of bar, so I'd never lump them all together. The ones I avoid have very dark interiors and very loud music.

One local pub turned into one of those - but now it's turned back intop a pub again.

[Deleted]

there is a difference and it can sometimes be hard to pinpoint, but to me certainly any drinking establishment that deigns not to even have any draught beverages on tap is most certainly a 'bar' and i dont like them sorts of places.

[riotgrrl]

Nah, I don't get this difference between 'bar' and 'pub' thing at all.



Anyway.

Man walks into a bar.

Shoulda gone to Specsavers.

Boom boom, what?

[aubrey]

Pubs have bars in them, though.

I can usually tell a bar from the outside. And then I don't go in.

People will talk about cocktail bars and wine bars. They both sound really dodgy to me - expensive, and (as Costal says) you won't be able to get draft beer.

[Patrick]

Dec 6, 2010 14:53:07 GMT aubrey said:

Pubs have bars in them, though.

I can usually tell a bar from the outside. And then I don't go in.

People will talk about cocktail bars and wine bars. They both sound really dodgy to me - expensive, and (as Costal says) you won't be able to get draft beer.

A couple of years ago - to much fanfare and the then "Landlord" declaring that he wanted rid of it's fuddy duddy "Coronation Street" image the former "King Edward" Pub in Lancaster had it's original Victorian polished tile front and etched frosted front curved window removed. The then frontage was replaced with a couple of cheap fire doors and a plate glass window. The pub became "LA1". The area is supposed to be a conservation area - but someone must have "known" someone on the council for this to have happened.

It lasted about a year and has spent the last, empty. What an utter waste. Now That's the difference between pubs and bars. A bar in the eyes of developers is a bland, laminate wood clad beigeness of a place. A pub is a characterful, colourful warm and friendly one.