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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 15:58:19 GMT
(And yes, I am looking at you Weyland and Jean, but anyone else who can help, please do!)
I'm translating into proper English a conference report filled with papers written by foreigners who think they speak English. (The punctuation is particularly dreadful - yer continentals don't know how to use commas properly.) (She said, using one of the dreaded dashes herself.)
ANYHOO . . .Member States of the EU OR member states of the EU.
I'm thinking the latter. Lower case. (Yer Swedes and the like are terribly bad for putting capital letters on words that shouldn't have capital letters, but the more you do this kind of thing the more confused you become yourself.) But most of the speakers use capitals for Member States.
Anyone with a style manual or similar, or just good knowledge care to advise?
Thanks.
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 15:58:52 GMT
(P.S. Yes, I can write proper English when I'm not on messageboards. But it's more of an edit. Yer foreigners get their 'to' and 'too' mixed up and stuff like that.
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 16:03:46 GMT
Tell you what else yer foreigners get wrong with English - the 'ing' thing.
Try this:
"In addition, the balance between the objective to respect the crime victim and the demands for due process must always be kept in mind and in cases that involve child victims; this balance is very often particularly pertinent and complex."
I've edited it to . . .
"In addition, the balance between the objective OF RESPECTING the crime victim . . da d da involve child victims this balance . . da da." (i.e. I've takenn out that ; which seemed unnecessary.)
Would you have edited it the same?
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 16:21:11 GMT
"the possiblity to record the interview with the child victim applies to . ." should be (surely) "the possiblity of recording the interview with the child victim . ."  |
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 16:28:47 GMT
ANYHOO . . .Member States of the EU OR member states of the EU. Can't see any need for anything other than "member states", though I would write "EU member states". Always assuming that the meaning of "EU" is obvious in the context, that is. The pig-ignorant, such as Tories, might think it means "€", and froth at the mouth. (Come to think, they'd froth at the mouth at "European Union" as well. Or "European". Or "Union".) |
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 16:30:57 GMT
"the possiblity to record the interview with the child victim applies to . ." should be (surely) "the possiblity of recording the interview with the child victim . ." Let's see the whole sentence and an indication of the context. |
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Post by trubble on Dec 16, 2010 16:55:38 GMT
I would have said that ''objective to respect'' was correct.
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Post by trubble on Dec 16, 2010 16:57:11 GMT
Our objective is to respect each other.
See?
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Post by trubble on Dec 16, 2010 16:58:00 GMT
I hate grammar conundrums. Once you start thinking about it, it all becomes a muddle.   |
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 17:01:08 GMT
I hate grammar conundrums. Once you start thinking about it, it all becomes a muddle. Muddle. Conundrum. Let's call the whole thing off. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 17:46:21 GMT
ANYHOO . . .Member States of the EU OR member states of the EU. Can't see any need for anything other than "member states", though I would write "EU member states". Always assuming that the meaning of "EU" is obvious in the context, that is. The pig-ignorant, such as Tories, might think it means "€", and froth at the mouth. (Come to think, they'd froth at the mouth at "European Union" as well. Or "European". Or "Union".) That's what I thought too Weyland. No need for capital letters on 'member states'. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 17:48:02 GMT
I would have said that ''objective to respect'' was correct. No way. Surely it should be the 'objective of respecting . .' The objective IS to respect the victim, that's true, but I don't think that sits in the sentence. |
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 18:09:07 GMT
I would have said that ''objective to respect'' was correct. No way. Surely it should be the 'objective of respecting . .' The objective IS to respect the victim, that's true, but I don't think that sits in the sentence. This is your original text, Riot: 1. The semicolon shouldn't be there. 2. The bit after the semicolon might as well be discarded and "and in" replaced by ", especially in". 3. I feel bilious. "In addition, the balance between respecting the crime victim and demanding due process must always be kept in mind, especially in cases that involve child victims." Still don't like it. Don't envy you. |
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Post by jean on Dec 16, 2010 18:15:08 GMT
No way. Surely it should be the 'objective of respecting . .' Yes, I think so. Capital letters for 'member states' is more a matter of style. Certainly they're being used less and less. You're right to get rid of the semi-colon; I'd probably substitute a comma. But you absolutely need the 'that'! |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 18:15:34 GMT
My issue is really how far I rewrite, and how far I just pretend that these crazy English-speaking foreigners have made typos. So, I have no hesitation in putting in and taking out the 'the's and 'a's that should be there, and making sure it's the correct 'there's and 'their's . . but is it ethical of me to completely rewrite an 'English-speaking' academic's paper?
The paper from the Russian girl is just dreadful. It's like she's translated word from word from Russian, so the order of clauses in sentences and the like are just awful.
Someone else has 'testimonial' in when it should be 'evidence'.
You could see how you would get the words confused; we give testimony in court, but 'a testimonial' is not the same as 'evidence'. (although testimony is pretty much the same as oral evidence.)
So I DID change that one.
But why don't foreigners know how to use commas? (Apparently the French make more use of dashes than commas; I don't even know if that's true.)
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 18:50:02 GMT
But why don't foreigners know how to use commas? Foreigners? A lorralorra non-foreigners as well, in my experience. And not just punctuation: grammar, syntax, semantics, semiotics, vocabulary, pronunciation, style, unameit as well. You might as well forget trying to correct such stuff unless that's what you're getting paid for or/and you enjoy it and/or the writers ask you to correct them. Pis ..er.. spitting against the wind. Do you correct your colleagues' English? |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 18:53:07 GMT
But why don't foreigners know how to use commas? Foreigners? A lorralorra non-foreigners as well, in my experience. And not just punctuation: grammar, syntax, semantics, semiotics, vocabulary, pronunciation, style, unameit as well. You might as well forget trying to correct such stuff unless that's what you're getting paid for or/and you enjoy it and/or the writers ask you to correct them. Pis ..er.. spitting against the wind. Do you correct your colleagues' English? Weyland, not their spoken English - I'm not that great masel as you know! But yes, I copy-edit their work if they ask me to. Unlike when I'm posting merrily away on MBs, I do it with a dictionary and use journalism-type style books because I'm not very confident in my own spelling and punctuation. What I am good at is re-arranging sentences so that they make more sense and read more crisply. Crisper. More crisp. Whatever. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 16, 2010 18:53:36 GMT
P.S. And yes, of course I'm getting paid to edit this conference publication. I wouldn't be doing it for the sheer joy of it . . although it is quite good fun.
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Post by Weyland on Dec 16, 2010 19:14:51 GMT
P.S. And yes, of course I'm getting paid to edit this conference publication. I wouldn't be doing it for the sheer joy of it . . although it is quite good fun. Nuff sed. Been there, done that, got the scars. |
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Post by everso on Dec 16, 2010 19:49:43 GMT
Riot, these foreigners should be grateful you're doing this. You have my permission to alter whatever you like.  |
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