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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 27, 2011 11:33:02 GMT
Trubs, what's the score?
Sum up for us what's happened over there? Massive backlash against sitting Govt? What does it mean? Will it - like some news outlets are suggesting - lead to a fracturing of the Irish relationship with the EU?
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 11:47:57 GMT
It's very possible that you know more about it than I do. I have pretty much kept away from it.
Rift with the EU?? Why?
There is a much bigger left wing vote than normal if you include Sinn Fein, and it was the left wing that campaigned against the Lisbon Treaty and have campaigned this election on renegotiating the IMF loan. Perhaps that's what is worrying the news outlets.
Enda Kenny - the new Taoiseach - has already pledged his love for all of Europe. He's only just back from visiting Ms Merkel to hold hands and whisper sweet nothings. Literally nothings. He is very good at saying nothing.
What has happened is that the nation has given its biggest kicking to Fianna Fail in the whole history of time. And they have attempted to wipe out the Green Party. It's like Eygpt, Tunisia and Libya, yeah? But without the riots in the streets and deaths and poetic justice and morals and much change.
I am torn between not giving a flying fluff and crying tears of anger/relief as certain people got thrown out. Remember Portillo's face at that infamous election? There's a lot of Portillos.
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Post by Weyland on Feb 27, 2011 11:52:18 GMT
There's somebody frothing about it on Jen's Tapestry. There's been some talk of reneging on the IMF/EU bail-out and the EU says it's just not on. Can't see it happening.
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 27, 2011 11:53:00 GMT
Enda?
And that's a man's name is it?
Weird.
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Post by jean on Feb 27, 2011 11:56:02 GMT
And they have attempted to wipe out the Green Party. Oh dear. Any details about that? |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 11:56:17 GMT
It's no more weird than the Sinn Fein celebrations as their candidates won. They all stood in the counting halls singing
we're on the one road - maybe the wrong road
wtf
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Post by jean on Feb 27, 2011 11:57:01 GMT
There's somebody frothing about it on Jen's Tapestry... That is not a nice place, Weyland. Get off it now. |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:02:01 GMT
There's somebody frothing about it on Jen's Tapestry. There's been some talk of reneging on the IMF/EU bail-out and the EU says it's just not on. Can't see it happening. Can't really see it either. But the left say - and I can see their point - why not just re-negotiate the interest payments. What they gonna do? Throw us out of the Euro? That will be bad news for confidence in the euro if bond holders think the euro is about to collapse. (I see China is investing in the Euro). Debt-wise, we have the same deal as was given to African countries decades ago so we know we can't prosper again as long as we have to pay the interest. We have been told to sell of any state assets to make the money up. Same as Greece. I'm not just talking airports, water, gas. Sell your beaches, sell your harbours, sell your souls. It's ridiculous and needs to be re-negotiated. |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:04:28 GMT
And they have attempted to wipe out the Green Party. Oh dear. Any details about that? Yes. I told my Green TD that he broke my heart by joining Fianna Fail in govt and that he wasn't getting my vote. He valiantly tried to explain that he was sorry but they did some good things when they were in govt. Then he got quite angry and waved his arms around and went a little flushed in the face. Until then I had always thought of him as nice but a little wet. I now think he's quite attractive. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 27, 2011 12:08:23 GMT
It's no more weird than the Sinn Fein celebrations as their candidates won. They all stood in the counting halls singing we're on the one road - maybe the wrong roadwtf I know that song. That's a Celtic song. |
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Post by jean on Feb 27, 2011 12:09:47 GMT
I told my Green TD that he broke my heart by joining Fianna Fail in govt and that he wasn't getting my vote. He valiantly tried to explain that he was sorry but they did some good things when they were in govt. Then he got quite angry and waved his arms around and went a little flushed in the face. Until then I had always thought of him as nice but a little wet. I now think he's quite attractive. May I quote you on my local Green Party discussion list? |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:10:20 GMT
David McWilliams (the only economist I understand and trust) writes the following on what we should do next. But no one in govt listens to him. Anyway, you might not be interested but it's a Sunday and you might be bored. QUOTE: www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/02/16/before-we-sell-the-country-we-should-ask-the-peopleSo let’s get things straight: the Irish citizen is being asked to take on the debts of the European banks and pay for this by selling our assets for half nothing to the same banks so that we can bail them out. We take on debts without a discount and sell assets without a premium. At the moment these loans that we are being asked to pay are trading at a deep, deep discount because the “assets” they were supposed to back have collapsed in value. Yet we are being asked to pay for these loans at par. At the same time, our crucial and profitable state utilities — like the ESB — will be sold at a discount because the buyers will know that the sellers are screwed. This is what is going on. An organised heist, which will play out in front of our eyes and reward the very investment banks that blew their own and their clients’ money on the promises of David Drumm and the like. Meanwhile, our politicians argue over the rate of interest, begging for crumbs when they should be fighting for us. Someone has to stop this because the words of the EU Commission in Greece are directed at us too. Is there anything we can do? Yes there is. Whatever you might think of some senior European politicians, they are democrats. They are bonded together by the vision of Jean Monet and Schuman — the founders of the EU. Central to this vision was the notion of forgiveness. When I studied at the College of Europe in Bruges, this message was articulated again and again. Europe was a family of nations and once you were in the family, the family treated you as an equal and no matter what your previous behaviour, there was always a chance of redemption. This allowed Germany to recover after the War and it is the same attitude which is allowing Serbia, a country which orchestrated genocide in Bosnia less than two decades ago, to seek EU membership. In short, there are many more democrats in European politics than there are central bankers. There are many more elected politicians with a broad European view informed by history than there are unelected central bankers with a narrow monetary view. We need to bring this battle to generous European politicians and wrestle the details out of the mean fingers of bureaucrats and central bankers who were never elected and have no mandate. But how? You put it to the people. The new government should put to a referendum the question of making any further payments from the citizens to the bank creditors. This would give the new government a clear democratic mandate with which to negotiate. There is no democrat in Europe who would oppose the will of the people and it would get straight to the point where the political economy bulldozes the financial economy. It would also give the Government huge authority on the biggest issue facing us all. |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:11:44 GMT
I told my Green TD that he broke my heart by joining Fianna Fail in govt and that he wasn't getting my vote. He valiantly tried to explain that he was sorry but they did some good things when they were in govt. Then he got quite angry and waved his arms around and went a little flushed in the face. Until then I had always thought of him as nice but a little wet. I now think he's quite attractive. May I quote you on my local Green Party discussion list? I think it would be a good idea. I think the green party should know that sex appeal is a winner. Look at Prescott. |
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Post by jean on Feb 27, 2011 12:20:13 GMT
David McWilliams (the only economist I understand and trust) writes the following on what we should do next. You should post that on MCL. It's crawling with expert economists. |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:25:36 GMT
Yes. I noticed. Like I said, McWilliams is the only one I understand and trust. |
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Post by trubble on Feb 27, 2011 12:29:46 GMT
It's no more weird than the Sinn Fein celebrations as their candidates won. They all stood in the counting halls singing we're on the one road - maybe the wrong roadwtf I know that song. That's a Celtic song. Yes. Well, that's to say, it's a nationalist song. The ''soldiier's song'' it talks about is of course the republic national anthem and the ''we'' is all of ireland. It's an odd song. It covers the troubles in one line: ''we've had our quarrels''.... When I was lookin for it I found a Glasgow crowd at a Wolfe Tones gig, singing the Irish National Anthem -- which was weird because a) they were singing the Irish national anthem in glasgow accents and b) they were singing the Irish national anthem in English (treason) and c) it was the best rendition of it I'd ever heard and I wish we had their spirit. |
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Post by Weyland on Feb 27, 2011 12:32:00 GMT
There's somebody frothing about it on Jen's Tapestry... That is not a nice place, Weyland. Get off it now.As if I were on it. I should have said — the neighbour rang me with the information. |
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Post by Weyland on Feb 27, 2011 12:33:43 GMT
There's somebody frothing about it on Jen's Tapestry. There's been some talk of reneging on the IMF/EU bail-out and the EU says it's just not on. Can't see it happening. Can't really see it either. But the left say - and I can see their point - why not just re-negotiate the interest payments. What they gonna do? Throw us out of the Euro? That will be bad news for confidence in the euro if bond holders think the euro is about to collapse. (I see China is investing in the Euro). Debt-wise, we have the same deal as was given to African countries decades ago so we know we can't prosper again as long as we have to pay the interest. We have been told to sell of any state assets to make the money up. Same as Greece. I'm not just talking airports, water, gas. Sell your beaches, sell your harbours, sell your souls. It's ridiculous and needs to be re-negotiated. I agree. Thatcherism imposed from the outside. What could be worse? |
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Post by jean on Feb 27, 2011 12:36:44 GMT
That is not a nice place, Weyland. Get off it now.As if I were on it. I should have said — the neighbour rang me with the information. Oh, that's all right then. Actually it's a bit of a disappointment, because if you were on there I was going to ask you to give my love to the Toad. (Who is in Dublin, of course, and probably has his own very particular take on things...perhaps you could ask your neighbour about it?) |
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Post by Weyland on Feb 27, 2011 12:53:27 GMT
It's crawling with expert economists. Oxymoron of the Century! |
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