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Post by Patrick on Jul 6, 2012 23:59:33 GMT
Here's The Argos story on it. Hypocritical of the other parties of course to condemn the move as you know damn well they'd be doing the same. It is a shame though that public transport subsidy is always the first to take a hit. Maybe if we still owned the buses it might not be so hard.
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 7, 2012 13:13:42 GMT
It seems a bit odd to cut the 96 route before working out how children will get to school! I'm guessing that the affected pupils aren't entitled to free transport because they live too close?
Our local council (desperately strapped for cash!) still pays for concessionary bus pass holders to travel after 9 am instead of the 9.30 start allowed in the government scheme: I hope Brighton doesn't do the same. That would seem the obvious first saving.
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Post by jean on Jul 8, 2012 8:35:22 GMT
As it happens, the dissenting Green councillor from Brighton (who voted against the proposed budget) is coming to talk to Lliverpool Green Party tomorrow evening. It'll be interesting to hear what she says about this. I think that in this city we have a very cautious view of what a council can do in defiance of what the Government tells it to, because we remember so well the debacle of the Militant council of the 1980s. Our local council (desperately strapped for cash!) still pays for concessionary bus pass holders to travel after 9 am instead of the 9.30 start allowed in the government scheme... The only reason that is so expensive is because the bus services are privatised, and the council has to pay the bus company for every journey by every concessionary pass holder - and presumably the notional fare is higher before 9.30. If the council or the local transport authority were responsible for providing the services, the buses would be running anyway and it wouldn't matter how many extra non-paying passengers got on them. (And if you think that those who do pay fares are only just covering the cost of providing the service, have a look at the profits of a company like Stagecoach.) |
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 9, 2012 6:54:43 GMT
It wasn't so long ago that I was paying my own fare, and off peak starts at 9am round here.
I got off a bus once in Brighton when I found that they charge a flat fare for every journey, no matter the distance. The walk was actually longer than I thought it was, but what a rip off!
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Post by jean on Jul 9, 2012 7:56:44 GMT
It wasn't so long ago that I was paying my own fare, and off peak starts at 9am round here. Then why wouldn't concessionary pass holders be able to travel after 9? I don't understand. I presumed you were complaining that pre-9.30 journeys cost the council more. |
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 9, 2012 13:05:54 GMT
Yes, they do.
As I understand it, the concessionary scheme financed by the government covers journeys made after 9.30. Don't ask me how they picked on that hour; it is just so.
Local authorities can decide to upgrade the passes by "topping up" the payments to cover journeys between 9am and 9.30. This usually applies only to their own residents, so when we caught a bus from Penrih at 9.25 we became Twirlies ("Sorry love, you're too early") and had to pay.
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Post by jean on Jul 9, 2012 21:34:20 GMT
They picked it because nearly everywhere, off-peak starts at 9.30.
I don't understand how your local authority finances the passes.
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Post by jean on Jul 9, 2012 21:37:39 GMT
It seems a bit odd to cut the 96 route before working out how children will get to school! I'm guessing that the affected pupils aren't entitled to free transport because they live too close? I asked Alex Phillips about this tonight - she said these routes are going out to tender, and there is every hope that someone will pick them up. She said that when it was decided to try to operate them on a commercial basis, the other parties could have protested - but they didn't. |
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 10, 2012 17:52:05 GMT
They picked it because nearly everywhere, off-peak starts at 9.30. I don't understand how your local authority finances the passes. A lot of local authorities do, though I don't know how many. For example. Cumbrian residents could travel at any time after 9 in Cumbria. Every year our local council discusses whether to change the rules, but votes against it. Yet making that simple change would save a few jobs.... ......or help pay councillors' expenses! |
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Post by jean on Jul 11, 2012 8:11:44 GMT
Every year our local council discusses whether to change the rules, but votes against it. Yet making that simple change would save a few jobs... My question is, why is it so much more expensive for the council to fund concessionary pass holders to travel between 9 and 9.30? If that is outside off-peak time, then yes, any journeys made are notionally more expensive than those made after 9.30. But if not, then not. And all that's likely to happen is that pensioners who were going to travel anyway will just leave home a bit earlier; there won't be vast numbers of journeys that otherwise wouldn't be made. The whole way of costing this is a nonsense. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 11, 2012 9:26:39 GMT
Every year our local council discusses whether to change the rules, but votes against it. Yet making that simple change would save a few jobs... My question is, why is it so much more expensive for the council to fund concessionary pass holders to travel between 9 and 9.30? If that is outside off-peak time, then yes, any journeys made are notionally more expensive than those made after 9.30. But if not, then not. And all that's likely to happen is that pensioners who were going to travel anyway will just leave home a bit earlier; there won't be vast numbers of journeys that otherwise wouldn't be made. The whole way of costing this is a nonsense. Is the idea of keeping you wrinklies off the bus early in the morning not that it allows those of us who are working to keep you in the style to which you have been accustomed to be able to get on to public transport at this time in order for us to get to work? The whole concessionary fare thing annoys me. The bus fares here had to go up a whole lot this year to pay for it, because the Govt subsidy was not enough (or something like that.) So my Mum and Dad can whiz around the country by bus free of charge, and it costs me £1.85 to go the 5 or 6 bus stops between my house and my work. The older generation never seem to stop expecting us to pay for them. |
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Post by jean on Jul 11, 2012 10:11:58 GMT
Is the idea of keeping you wrinklies off the bus early in the morning not that it allows those of us who are working to keep you in the style to which you have been accustomed to be able to get on to public transport at this time in order for us to get to work? That's the idea of having a peak hour during which there isn't any travel allowed at concessionary rates. But if the local authority ends their peak hour at 9, that shouldn't apply. Blame privatisation. I've explained above how that affects costing. You ought to be pleased that the old are being encouraged onto buses - they are bloody awful drivers. |
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 11, 2012 11:08:24 GMT
According to yesterday's Independent, the Tories are considering scrapping free bus travel and prescriptions for everyone of pension age, along with the winter fuel allowance. They can't do it at the moment because of an election promise, but they are considering changing their next manifesto. That will be 2015 - what a depressing thought.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 11, 2012 11:17:23 GMT
You ought to be pleased that the old are being encouraged onto buses - they are bloody awful drivers. I know it's nasty of me, but I think the elderly should be restricted to using public transport to between the hours of 10 am and 4pm (and 7pm - midnight). Similarly they should be restricted to using shops during these hours also. Weekdays only; not weekends. It seems our politicians fall over themselves to be nice to the elderly because the elderly vote in disproportionate numbers. The politicians should try helping out the people who actually work and pay tax right now instead, as we're the ones paying for their largesse towards the elderly. |
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Post by jean on Jul 11, 2012 12:42:52 GMT
The politicians should try helping out the people who actually work and pay tax right now instead, as we're the ones paying for their largesse towards the elderly. I've paid plenty of tax in my time, Riot, and I wouldn't be too pleased if the government stopped considering me the moment I stopped paying it (which I haven't yet, actually.) Keeping concessionary pass-holders off public transport at peak times is one thing; paying the bus companies more for them to travel at times you've determined do not qualify as peak times is quite another, and it's that I don't understand. |
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Post by Weyland on Jul 11, 2012 13:38:06 GMT
According to yesterday's Independent, the Tories are considering scrapping free bus travel and prescriptions for everyone of pension age, along with the winter fuel allowance. They can't do it at the moment because of an election promise, but they are considering changing their next manifesto. That will be 2015 - what a depressing thought. Only in England, presumably. But then my bus pass doesn't work in England in any case (unless the route starts or ends in Wales). |
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Post by housesparrow on Jul 11, 2012 17:27:57 GMT
I know it's nasty of me, but I think the elderly should be restricted to using public transport to between the hours of 10 am and 4pm (and 7pm - midnight). Similarly they should be restricted to using shops during these hours also. Weekdays only; not weekends. It seems our politicians fall over themselves to be nice to the elderly because the elderly vote in disproportionate numbers. The politicians should try helping out the people who actually work and pay tax right now instead, as we're the ones paying for their largesse towards the elderly. Jack tries to get his hair cut before work. The barber opens for business at 8am, but no matter how early he arrives, there is always a queue of retired people already waiting. (At least he assumes they are retired; they might of course be dashing off to their jobs in B&Q garden department.) Conversely, my advice centre has special lunchtime sessions to help working people. Invariably a trio of pensioners turns up during this period, laden down with shopping. |
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