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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 9, 2009 23:15:05 GMT
Since they are not Muslim the whole incident will be ignored. By who? AH |
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Post by trubble on Mar 9, 2009 23:54:09 GMT
Since they are not Muslim the whole incident will be ignored. By who? AH Yeah, I wondered what that meant too... |
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Post by trubble on Mar 9, 2009 23:55:14 GMT
Trubble, that was the word around and about - it was for a military build-up as was the other one before that. Armaments cost a fortune nowadays! It's good to have a spy in there. Tell us more Bodge. ;D |
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 10, 2009 3:06:56 GMT
Since they are not Muslim the whole incident will be ignored. By who? AH By the pontificators on news and boards that we do not see already screaming about the Catholic Menace and need to vet everybody they don't like the look of. If Muslims had done the same, the 'news' papers would be full of screaming terror. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 8:12:41 GMT
Lifting this post from Arrse - Ireland The 26 counties and the majority in the North art abhored by what thou hath done. doth not for one minute thinkest thou hath the support of anyone other that those close to thou who art either sh!t scared of you, or art directly profiting out of the racketeering, intimidation, vice drugs and smuggling operations thou continue to run with impunity. thou art a cancer on all of this Ireland and will be cut out in the end. The community will looketh upon to this in time. thine community Not everyone in thine community supports what thou didst. A number will knowest that thou were not able to account for thine movements last night. A few others may hath a better idea what thou did, and may feel they need to taketh action against thou. They only need to pick up the phone and dial 0800 555 111, there will be someone there to hark 24 hours a day, in strict confidence. Touts Soon thine muckers will start to put out graffitti about touts. Well thou doth need to worry and start trying to scare them off now, it's thine only hope. Greed, revenge and excitement art often given as why they decide to come forward. ( best thou play up how disloyal they art to the community, it will help to mask thine own barbaric trechery against Ireland). Try and play down the fact that many will also decide to step forwards because they art genuinely set against thine criminal unconstitutional methods. That they doth not wanteth to decend into another 30 years of darkness caused by gun-toting psychopaths such as thou. doth everything thou can to counteract any suggestion that these kind of people art brave and a force for good. Remember the Peelers or Brits probably hath a good idea who thou art already, they may hath already of approached someone in thine club, thine street, perhaps thine family. For the rest of thine life thou can never be sure, look at the picture at the bottom, Amen I could well be stood next to thou. Religion Not a topic close to thine heart, but thine Ma, Da and Grandparents art probably lighting a candle for thou at every opportunity. They art worried that there is no absolution for thine cowardly sins and that thou will burn, as the Rev Ian might well suggest on Ravenhill Road this morning. Late, probably very late, in life thou may find thou suddenly turn to prayer yourself: Prayer 1. Pray that the Peelers get to thou first, thou will probably doth less than 8 years and walk free a hero. Prayer 2 Consider now that in the last few seconds of thine life, thou may thank god that thou art about to die with a gun in thine hand. If the Peelers don't get you, there is an excellent chance the SAS will find thou. thou will die quick and a hero, a bit of a nasty surprise for you, but no more that getting shot collecting thine Pizza. thou will die a hero, ...if thou don't hath a gun in thine hand already, just asketh nicely and they will lend thou a spare one. If thou live in Stiles, the New Lodge or Ardoyne asketh a grown up for details of the Ballysillan or Gibraltar package, they will probably remember Prayer 3 That the SAS get thou before the RA, they art pretty pissed off with thou right now. Its going to be a bit more difficult for their real business from now on, that's all going to be down to thou I hope thou hath not been into one of their "decomissioned " hides? If the RA get thou first thou will die alone, probably bound and naked, up the back of the Black Mountain. Don't worry they won't torture thou for long, there might not be a group beating they might just head-job thou and the Peelers may find thou after a few days. In an inclusive, multi-cultural way, respecting all traditions, let's hope that everybodys' day will come, especially yours. www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=118253.htmlWell said  Looks like you lifted it before they pulled the threads SWL |
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Post by Ben Becula on Mar 10, 2009 13:02:57 GMT
You really couldn't make it up. Christians on one side of a wall, built to keep them from killing the Christians on the other side of the wall, and vice versa.
Religion. Don't you just love it?
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Post by trubble on Mar 10, 2009 13:36:52 GMT
It's got nothing to do with religion.
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Post by motorist on Mar 10, 2009 13:46:04 GMT
One side believes you should crack an egg from the wide end, the other from the narrow end, that's it  Well, it was in "Gulliver's Travels"  |
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Post by everso on Mar 10, 2009 14:03:30 GMT
One side believes you should crack an egg from the wide end, the other from the narrow end, that's it Well, it was in "Gulliver's Travels" Well put. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 10, 2009 16:51:45 GMT
It's got nothing to do with religion. Except insofar as religion in the province is used as one of the identifiers of tribe/nationality. Had the Brits shown courage at the time of partition, and the Irish Republicans shown tolerance to their Protestant minority, a 32 county Ireland might have been possible created between the wars. Sure, there would have been some bloodshed and 'ethnic cleansing', but given that the 'troubles' (euphamism of the 20th century) cost something in the region of 3000 lives (and that's just the dead - it doesn't include the widowed, the orphaned, the bereaved, the injured and the traumatised) partition hardly avoided bloodshed, did it? Undoubtedly the religious differences between the two communities are great; after all, Presbyterianism as a faith was created as an argument against the falsehoods and anti-biblical nature of Roman Catholicism. But I don't think the neds firebombing each others' houses over the 'peace wall' are doing so because one side don't believe in the bodily assumption of the Virgin Mary and the other does. But to call the 'troubles' a religious war is like saying the problems in the Balkans were caused by religion. |
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 10, 2009 19:22:58 GMT
Going back to the time in question, Britain probably wanted to hang on to the Belfast shipyards and was afraid that a Home Rule Ireland (which was on the cards anyway and the 'martyrs' of 1916 - defying their own High Command - only delayed) might favour the USSR. It must not be forgotten that Socialism was far more feared then and more prominent in the Irish agenda.
It's also likely that the British government intended the Six Counties to be unstable and to renegotiate expansion to the traditional 9 county Ulster, which would be overwhelmingly Catholic, or retreat to a 4 counties which would be overwhelmingly Protestant but too small to govern itself (probably waiting for Lord Carson to drop dead)
In the end, it did what Britain so often does and effected a compromise that combined the worst of all options and the Northern Parliament opted out of the Free State and back into the UK as long as it could maintain a sort of colonial self-government. The Boundary Commission that was expected to hand Catholic parts of the North to the South never got the chance to.
Very likely, if the North had not had the option to opt out, the Anglo-Irsh and the Irish Civil Wars would have fallen into one war which the Protestants would have lost. Historically, a lot of old traditional Nationalists going back to the 18th century were Protestant Ascendency. The result would have been far healthier on both sides because the Civil War allowed the more Fascistic and religious elements to over-ride the Socialistic and a particular kind of Catholicism that General Franco would have approved of (and certainly approved of him) came to dominate what had been a more liberal establishment with elements of what later became liberation theology.
The Civil War, the whole origin in guerilla war and sympathy for Northern Nationalists allowed gangster elements to predominate and they have never really gone away. Whether De Valera actually arranged for Collins to be assassinated will never entirely be known but both knwe that it would happen and get the more charismatic and less devious leader out of Dev's way.
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Post by trubble on Mar 10, 2009 20:38:06 GMT
The 'troubles' were about civil and human rights.
Whatever way history tells it, everyone now is committed to a peace process and sharing of power with the potential of a shift of power and no one is being denied their democratic right to lead or to choose a leader based on that criteria. All of Ireland even got to vote for this process and in doing so the Republic gave up its claim to the North.
The future will be through political movement alone and not crime or insurgency so it is not about religion anymore, nor the rising nor the leaders, it's about the people breaking their habits and mind sets.
The wall is just one small part of the North. I am no expert but I know that there are people living in the heart of Belfast who, even during the troubles, were not touched by any of the violence or issues and are not living that way now.
The idiots who carried out these murders are freaks. I heard someone describing them as psychopathic. I think that's the best description. They can't have paid any heed to history or religion or democracy when they made their choices. They are just using it all for their own ends.
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 10, 2009 21:08:33 GMT
There's not just one wall - there's loads of them. It's hard to tell whether they are good or a bad thing by now because both sides have become so used to being cut off hurling whatever they can over at the other side.It's just the way life is, the way it used to be routine to take a shot at the neighbours across some valleys in the Appalachians.
If the North had been told it could either be governed from Dublin or from Westminster but in no case from Stormont, the civil rights issue could never have arisen. It might have been the other way round, with pressure on Dublin to catch up.
No doubt these people are freaks. For a start they know that nobody supports their cause. The danger is that they could start to recruit violent young men with no experience of what the Troubles were really like. They could well have been such themselves originally, the ultra-dirty arm who could be relied on to do anything and no loss if it turns into a suicide mission. Not forgetting that they have their Unionist equivalents. Very likely they will continue down the generations as violent criminal gangs.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 10, 2009 21:33:35 GMT
The 'troubles' were about civil and human rights. Whatever way history tells it, everyone now is committed to a peace process and sharing of power with the potential of a shift of power and no one is being denied their democratic right to lead or to choose a leader based on that criteria. All of Ireland even got to vote for this process and in doing so the Republic gave up its claim to the North. The future will be through political movement alone and not crime or insurgency so it is not about religion anymore, nor the rising nor the leaders, it's about the people breaking their habits and mind sets. The wall is just one small part of the North. I am no expert but I know that there are people living in the heart of Belfast who, even during the troubles, were not touched by any of the violence or issues and are not living that way now. The idiots who carried out these murders are freaks. I heard someone describing them as psychopathic. I think that's the best description. They can't have paid any heed to history or religion or democracy when they made their choices. They are just using it all for their own ends. Won't nit-pick such excellence . . but . . . When you say the troubles were "about" human and civil rights, are you saying that you would define it that way rather than in the way I did, as being a form of identity/tribal politics? Because the positions are not mutually exclusive of course. The troubles were about human rights in the same way as the struggle against apartheid was about equality and human rights, but the infrastructure that had caused one 'side' to not have those rights was an infrastructure based on identity, not ideology. |
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 11, 2009 0:18:25 GMT
The Troubles rode on the back of the Human Rights problem. That was purely internal and the UK should never have let the Unionists get away with running that sort of colonial regime. It's only as Sinn Fein and the IRA infiltrated the Civil Rights movement and then after Ted Heath arranged the disaster of Bloody Sunday God-knows-why that the Republican Movement came to the fore. Originally it was like Iraq, that the Catholics welcomed British soldiers sent there to protect their rights and sort Stormont out.
What neither side realises is that not many people outside think of them as British or Irish (or want them!) SF may be in government there but it has 2 seats or something in Dail Eireann and that mainly because its Marxist agenda gets things done in poor urban areas where it has a lot of support in local government and there's been a lot of sympathy for the Northern poor, who were mostly Catholic Nationalists, and in some remote areas where English is the second language.
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Post by trubble on Mar 11, 2009 0:54:53 GMT
There's a danger that we are all mostly correct - except for Ben, because it's not a religious war.
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