|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 18, 2009 17:54:35 GMT
Some of the children did though because he and his wife were looking after them . His wife ...........who isn't talking ............which I think is VERY telling . She is IMO heavily involved . You do have to wonder, don't you ARF? Fritzl took some of his children 'upstairs' and presented them to his wife for her to raise . . . I mean, I know we women are weak and feeble and not great at the thinking, but you'd think maybe some alarm bells would have been ringing? It does seem beyond bizarre but her innocence/ignorance/denial has some sort of precedent - other wives have managed to not know their husband was the Ripper or a killer doctor apparently. An article about it here: Frau Fritzl She was reunited with Elisabeth and told her that she didn't know. Presumably Elisabeth would have told the police otherwise if she suspected otherwise. Having raised three of Elisabeth's children, there are three witnesses to what went on upstairs in that house. I think that if there was something to know about Frau Fritzl, the police know it. Frau Fritzl speaks- but not much. |
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 18, 2009 17:55:55 GMT
He found plenty on his sex tours to Thailand, apparently. Sex tours. Creepy. I imagine there are plently of people on sex tours that don't do things like this, however creepy. And odd. Bleugh. |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Mar 18, 2009 17:58:55 GMT
I'm not saying all sex tourists are Fritzls in waiting . . . . although I could probably make a case.
Just 'Sex Tours. Creepy'.
|
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 18, 2009 17:59:33 GMT
I think when it happened shows that it did mean more. Even his defence team were taken by suprise. He just stood up in court and said 'I dunnit all'. I think it shows that he had concocted a fantasy in his head about what he was doing, some kind of denial born from survival instinct, but when faced with it on a TV screen the fantasy world was broken for good.
His psychologist, who has been with him for a year, says he is sane. And dangerous.
|
|
|
|
Post by housesparrow on Mar 18, 2009 18:40:07 GMT
He just stood up in court and said 'I dunnit all'. I think it shows that he had concocted a fantasy in his head about what he was doing, some kind of denial born from survival instinct, but when faced with it on a TV screen the fantasy world was broken for good. What an interesting explanation. I have a troubled friend who seems to do much the same thing - only with much more minor offences. It could be just an extreme form of what people are sometimes tempted to do - search for a reasonable justification for our actions, then convince ouselves that yes, that is why we acted why we did. I say "we" because I suspect I have done it, but I can't speak for you all, of course! |
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 18, 2009 19:07:24 GMT
He just stood up in court and said 'I dunnit all'. I think it shows that he had concocted a fantasy in his head about what he was doing, some kind of denial born from survival instinct, but when faced with it on a TV screen the fantasy world was broken for good. What an interesting explanation. I have a troubled friend who seems to do much the same thing - only with much more minor offences. It could be just an extreme form of what people are sometimes tempted to do - search for a reasonable justification for our actions, then convince ouselves that yes, that is why we acted why we did. I say "we" because I suspect I have done it, but I can't speak for you all, of course! I expect that if we were all being brutally honest with ourselves about every single thing we did all the time, we'd go insane. Fantasy-worlds/delusions/little white lies to ourselves are all there to keep us sane. Yes, I hadn't thought about it quite like that. What's interesting about cases as bad as this one is that they are extremes of other normal behaviour. |
|
|
|
Post by Flatypus on Mar 18, 2009 19:28:34 GMT
He just stood up in court and said 'I dunnit all'. I think it shows that he had concocted a fantasy in his head about what he was doing, some kind of denial born from survival instinct, but when faced with it on a TV screen the fantasy world was broken for good. What an interesting explanation. I have a troubled friend who seems to do much the same thing - only with much more minor offences. It could be just an extreme form of what people are sometimes tempted to do - search for a reasonable justification for our actions, then convince ouselves that yes, that is why we acted why we did. I say "we" because I suspect I have done it, but I can't speak for you all, of course! I don't know about 'reasonable' . Some things can be reasoned and some can't. When the story gets to a level of disconnect that requires further stories to fit it in, you're talking Paranoia. Somebody was saying that Fritzl lacks empathy but I don't know whether that was his psychiatrist or not. It's not a particularly profound observation anyway. That would place as generally psychotic. What nobody seems to asked much about is why this started 24 years ago. Was he up to even more no good before then? Did something freak his mind? It would be understandable if he had always been this way as a result of some Nazi upbringing but that doesn't seem to be the case either. |
|
|
|
Post by jean on Mar 18, 2009 23:23:58 GMT
We know he had raped before. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7371959.stm"When his daughter was still a toddler, Fritzl was convicted of raping a woman in Linz in 1967 and was sentenced to a term in prison. However, under Austrian law, unless the crime carries a life sentence, a conviction must be removed from a person's criminal record after no more than 15 years. Fritzl therefore did not have any criminal convictions on record when he and his wife adopted the first of the children from his daughter in 1994." |
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2009 0:48:58 GMT
 And he hadn't stopped anything. He was abusing his daughter already and violent with his son. His son says he couldn't help Elisabeth even though she told her brother what was going on. He didn't know how to. He just left. I suppose he thought Elisabeth had done the same. It helps to explain Elisabeth's powerlessness over all the years if she told people and they didn't stop it. Then when it got to the point of imprisonment what did she have left to do but sit tight and survive? Poor kid.
|
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2009 0:50:26 GMT
Apparently any type of abuser/offender starts in his teens and continues, it's rarely if ever out of the blue.
Note how I have nothing to back that up - it's just something I heard a couple of times.
|
|
|
|
Post by Flatypus on Mar 19, 2009 1:18:08 GMT
Makes sense unless some weird personality change develops. They probably start before that but it's either picked up so they don't continue or not noticed or there's nothing they can do about it yet. Once you get away with it you'll continue until you're caught. They say that often these people subconciously want to get caught, so get sloppy or start playing Batman style games leaving clues. That might be true sometimes but I think it much more likely that the more you get away with something, the more casual you get about it and some particular mental conditions like to laugh at the excitement of seeing how long they can play the police along just like a lot of other people seeing how much they can get away with. There doesn't need to be any more to it than the same kind of excitement that leads surfers to a bigger wave.
What worries me more is the teen borderline of socially acceptable, and often encouraged, pressure that is not technicaly abuse but needs the selfishly determined mind of an abuser. What worries me even more is that this is not really any different from the ruthless determination to make it to the top or get the goods that our culture positively encourages. Remember the old Goldfather advert: Some things cannot be given, they must be taken with the implication that the ruthlessness to take is admirable, even in a criminal organisation. As far as I'm concerned, only those things which are given have any value - so that's modern post-Capitalism out on its ear.
|
|
A.P.P.S
S C 
