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Post by trubble on Apr 9, 2009 11:07:51 GMT
Hospital chaplains are specially trained in different forms of councelling, not just as spiritual advisers. They are happy to give comfort to anyone, regardless of faith, or indeed, non-faith. I think that is very important. Emotional or spiritual (call it what you will) well-being is as important as medical care in many cases. Not just for the patient either. My organisation once employed a chaplain, and it coincided with my father's dredful stroke, when I was consumed the horror of the speechless, movementless life that stretched out before him, and also riddled with guilt. I'd seen a "professional" counsellor who was just dreadful; she just seemed to reinforce my own beliefs about myself. The chaplain came by and I told him how dreadful I'd been feeling and why I felt things might have been different if I'd done such-and-such and he just said "You know you can't blame yourself, don't you?" or something similar. And of course I did. I just needed someone to confirm it, and I don't think that any counsellor would have dared say that.  I don't have your experience to go by but your example rings very true in general. It doesn't have to be religion (but in our times it is religion) that provides a spiritual and more holistic comfort and understanding of enormous events but we need more than analysis and 'talking it out' and logic to deal with some things. If a chaplain service can provide this then it's important. On lesser difficult events, I have found the wisdom and/or spirituality offered by a good man of the cloth to be a vital support. Just one or two comments can carry you a long way. |
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Post by trubble on Apr 9, 2009 11:08:48 GMT
"The hospital should provide the chapel but no more"...
What use is a chapel without someone to maintain it?
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Post by trubble on Apr 9, 2009 11:10:48 GMT
Bonbon, why on earth NOT voluntary contributions? A relation of a patient might well want to give money for the chaplaincy service specifically without pouring money into the coffers of the C of E! Yes, contributions are very fair, but I doubt they'd be enough so it would have to be a combined effort with either the NHS or church or both. I suppose someone bright could start a chaplain charity along the lines of the lifeboats etc. |
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Post by housesparrow on Apr 9, 2009 12:25:46 GMT
"The hospital should provide the chapel but no more"... What use is a chapel without someone to maintain it? The cleaning and maintenance could also be born by the hospital under the banner of "provision." Unless it has Gothic architecture that shouldn't be too onerous! That doesn't mean the hospital also has to bear the (much greater?) cost of a chaplain. |
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Post by bonbonlarue on Apr 9, 2009 12:59:25 GMT
Bonbon, why on earth NOT voluntary contributions? A relation of a patient might well want to give money for the chaplaincy service specifically without pouring money into the coffers of the C of E! Because then people would feel [unfairly] obliged to give money to something they have not necessarily asked for. The church should pay. It can well afford to. |
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Post by percyplum on Apr 9, 2009 14:47:00 GMT
Bonbon, why on earth NOT voluntary contributions? A relation of a patient might well want to give money for the chaplaincy service specifically without pouring money into the coffers of the C of E! Because then people would feel [unfairly] obliged to give money to something they have not necessarily asked for. The church should pay. It can well afford to. Although I believe a priest, or some spiritual advisor, is essential, I don't think the church should sponsor him/her. As a governing body they would be too restrictive about the way the funding was spent. The idea of a charity along the lines of Lifeboats is brilliant. |
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Post by everso on Apr 9, 2009 14:55:59 GMT
My organisation once employed a chaplain, and it coincided with my father's dredful stroke, when I was consumed the horror of the speechless, movementless life that stretched out before him, and also riddled with guilt. I'd seen a "professional" counsellor who was just dreadful; she just seemed to reinforce my own beliefs about myself. The chaplain came by and I told him how dreadful I'd been feeling and why I felt things might have been different if I'd done such-and-such and he just said "You know you can't blame yourself, don't you?" or something similar. And of course I did. I just needed someone to confirm it, and I don't think that any counsellor would have dared say that. I don't have your experience to go by but your example rings very true in general. It doesn't have to be religion (but in our times it is religion) that provides a spiritual and more holistic comfort and understanding of enormous events but we need more than analysis and 'talking it out' and logic to deal with some things. If a chaplain service can provide this then it's important. On lesser difficult events, I have found the wisdom and/or spirituality offered by a good man of the cloth to be a vital support. Just one or two comments can carry you a long way. It's often not a priest that's needed so much as someone to empathise and give a reassuring word, rather than a cold silence, which is often the way professional counsellors behave. |
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Post by bonbonlarue on Apr 10, 2009 7:58:50 GMT
I don't want some fantasist on my death bed telling me I'm going to a better place. I want a good doctor who can make sure it's pain free and as dignified as possible. [you may notice that I'm not a regular church goer...]  |
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Post by motorist on Apr 10, 2009 8:00:21 GMT
I don't want some fantasist on my death bed telling me I'm going to a better place. I want a good doctor who can make sure it's pain free and as dignified as possible. Likewise  |
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Post by everso on Apr 10, 2009 15:35:53 GMT
I don't want some fantasist on my death bed telling me I'm going to a better place. I want a good doctor who can make sure it's pain free and as dignified as possible. [you may notice that I'm not a regular church goer...] +1 And like the comedian said, I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my dad did, not screaming and crying like his passengers. |
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Post by housesparrow on Apr 11, 2009 15:39:42 GMT
That reminds me of a joke told to me by a friend who lived for many years in South Africa, where taxi drivers have a reputation for recklessness.
A taxi driver and a church minister arrived together at the Pearly Gates, and St Peter offered to show them their new accommodation. The minister was shown a very neat and acceptable little bungalow, with all mod-cons.
They all walked on together to a set of marble steps leading to a great mansion, and St Peter handed the cabbie the keys. The minister was a little miffed, and queried whether perhaps there had been a muddle.
St Peter consulted his clipboard and said "No, no mistake. Your deeds on earth have been carefully noted and I'm sad to say, minister, that during your services, most of the congregation was asleep.
"However every time we looked inside the taxi, the passengers were deep in prayer."
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Post by Weyland on Jan 31, 2011 11:09:37 GMT
I see that it's Coffeepot's birthday, but she hasn't logged in since April 2009, long before I registered here. Shame.
This was an interesting thread, even though I'm not on it.
When my sister died, in 2004, I discovered that she had already paid for the cremation, cars, etc., and a bit of a Wake. And she left clear instructions about the "service". She was a long-time atheist, but she did want a Catholic priest to say a few words. No Mass, no mention of God, nothing like that. Worked a treat, and he didn't want paying either.
I'm lapsed as well, but it was a pleasure talking to the priest. And his being Irish didn't hurt.
~ ~ ~
Anyway -- Happy Birthday, Coffeepot, wherever you are.
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Post by everso on Jan 31, 2011 12:20:45 GMT
Yes, this was a good thread. I'm not religious (in case any of you haven't noticed) but I always find being in a church is comforting. I occasionally do flowers in a local church and it's the best place for doing arrangements.
I also like singing hymns and carols. I think that's a throw-back to my youth as we always had daily assembly at school, and it was two hymns, a prayer or two, the Lord's Prayer and then the headmaster read out who had got detention and who'd been caned. (Catholics and Jews sat outside the hall if their parents didn't want them contaminated by the C of E service)
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Post by Weyland on Jan 31, 2011 15:06:59 GMT
(Catholics and Jews sat outside the hall if their parents didn't want them contaminated by the C of E service) I only attended Catholic schools, naturally. The head of the primary school, Sister Mary Albius, wouldn't have countenanced any heretics at all about the place, I'm sure, but at the grammar school we did have one token Protestant. Just the one whilst I was there (unless there were others who weren't out of the closet). I guess Canon Cassidy was a bit more liberal (though if so that was the only indication of it ever). I once got six of the best for — wait for it — laughing on the bus. But there were none of those other shenanigans, as far as I know. |
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Post by jean on Jan 31, 2011 21:08:00 GMT
...and then the headmaster read out who had got detention and who'd been caned. (Catholics and Jews sat outside the hall if their parents didn't want them contaminated by the C of E service) Surely they had to come in before those lists were read out, in case they were on them? I don't think we had any Catholics at my school, but the Jewish girls sat in the cloakroom for the religious part of the assembly and then filed in for the notices. The rest of us always thought how lucky they were, and I was surprised to see in one of Edwina Currie's books that this made her feel deeply humiliated.As for hospital chaplains - is it a full-time job? The priest who's been visiting my friend certainly has other roles. |
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Post by everso on Feb 1, 2011 1:48:18 GMT
...and then the headmaster read out who had got detention and who'd been caned. (Catholics and Jews sat outside the hall if their parents didn't want them contaminated by the C of E service) Surely they had to come in before those lists were read out, in case they were on them? I don't think we had any Catholics at my school, but the Jewish girls sat in the cloakroom for the religious part of the assembly and then filed in for the notices. The rest of us always thought how lucky they were, and I was surprised to see in one of Edwina Currie's books that this made her feel deeply humiliated.As for hospital chaplains - is it a full-time job? The priest who's been visiting my friend certainly has other roles. Do you know, I really don't remember whether they came in for the notices. I should think they must have done, but I don't recall it. We had four houses: Lister, Fry, De Vere and Petre. I was in Petre, which did well at sports, but always lost any house points it gained on the sports field, because of the number of canings and detentions its members had. Not me, I might add, although I did get detentions occasionally. Like you, I always envied the "outsiders". I can't imagine why anyone would have felt humiliated though. It wasn't that we weren't letting them in, it was their parents requesting they be kept apart. |
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Post by aubrey on Feb 1, 2011 10:46:23 GMT
We get a Chaplain coming round to the dialysis unit every few weeks. He seems as embarrassed as me by it. Last time I couldn't think of anything to say to him other than that in the book I was reading it turned out to be the Vicar who did it (or something like that: I can't remember exactly) .He's a decent enough bloke, though.
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Post by everso on Feb 1, 2011 13:25:36 GMT
We get a Chaplain coming round to the dialysis unit every few weeks. He seems as embarrassed as me by it. Last time I couldn't think of anything to say to him other than that in the book I was reading it turned out to be the Vicar who did it (or something like that: I can't remember exactly) .He's a decent enough bloke, though. Why does he visit the dialysis unit, Aubs? Seems a bit odd to me. Unless he's just there to give you a cheery word. I remember when I was in hospital after having my daughter. A vicar entered our ward just as all the mums were baring their breasts to feed their babies. Most embarrassing. Yes, I know it shouldn't have been embarrassing, but it was. |
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Post by aubrey on Feb 1, 2011 18:00:07 GMT
That's like a scene out of a carry on film (the vicar looking like the one out of Dad's Army).
I don't know why he comes to see us. We get a poet sometimes, as well.
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Post by Weyland on Feb 1, 2011 18:06:49 GMT
That's like a scene out of a carry on film (the vicar looking like the one out of Dad's Army). I don't know why he comes to see us. We get a poet sometimes, as well. Do you ever get a -- how can I put it -- French Teacher? |
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