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Post by housesparrow on May 8, 2009 7:43:49 GMT
motoring costs fall while fares rise Labour's efforts to slash carbon emissions are being undermined by the simple but remarkable fact that the cost of motoring has fallen while the cost of public transport has risen since the party came to power. Official figures, seen by The Independent, show that the cost of motoring has fallen by 13 per cent in real terms since 1997, while bus and coach fares have increased by 17 per cent above inflation. Rail fares have risen by 7 per cent extra above inflation.
The findings come despite the Government's pledge of cutting carbon emissions by 80 per cent by 2020.
Drivers often feel that they have been unfairly targeted by the Treasury, with the duty on petrol having increased dramatically since 1997. But the rises in the costs of running a car have been more than offset by the falling cost of buying and maintaining a car in real terms. For example, a Ford Fiesta with a 1.25-litre engine cost £9,165 when Labour came to power. Consumers can buy a similar model 12 years later for £9,995, making it much cheaper once inflation is factored in. The cost of maintenance has also fallen sharply as cars have become more reliable.
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Post by riotgrrl on May 8, 2009 8:39:48 GMT
I've been saying this for ages.
Remember those 'fuel protests' a couple of years back . . actually it was 4 or 5 wasn't it?
Anyway, I DID NOT support them at all. The costs of motoring, in real terms, have been declining (along with the cost of alcohol!). Yet they were whining on like babies because of a few extra pennies on the price of fuel.
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Post by Patrick on May 8, 2009 10:44:10 GMT
The RAC themselves came up with figures last July that said the the cost of motoring is actually cheaper than 1988 I was overjoyed when I read that because the only statistics I'd seen 'til then were from articles on a website from 2003 listing articles in the Spectator and other papers. To actually have the RAC say it though really gives the ardent petrol head no excuse for moaning. From that Indy article though: "Norman Baker, the Liberal Democrats' transport spokesman whose parliamentary question revealed the statistics, said the Government still had not made public transport affordable enough to encourage people out of their cars. "These figures show starkly just what a raw deal train and bus passengers have had out of this government, and that car drivers, for all the moans about fuel prices, have done rather well," he said.
"While ministers are busy preaching about cutting carbon emissions, the Department for Transport has allowed polluting transport to become cheaper and cleaner transport to become more expensive. The Department is clearly part of the carbon problem rather than part of the carbon solution."This from the Lib Dems - who as soon as they run out of money cut rural bus services - and against the interests of the people in Eastbourne have just sold off the locally owned bus service to Stagecoach where immediately problems arose because of their dodgy approach to safety. Not to mention the activities of the Lib MP David Rendell. Regardless of whether the man talks to truth or not - you can no more trust the Liberals on transport than the Tories or Labour. |
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Post by sesley on May 8, 2009 15:22:37 GMT
The fuel priceds seem to have a affect on food prices, you can go in a supermaket for a few things and before you know it ,bread,milk and a paper costs 3 to 4 pounds altogether,people who live on the Islands like Skye have even higher food costs because of the fuel prices and taxes
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Post by swl on May 8, 2009 15:35:13 GMT
Funny, that flies in the face of the figures being talked about on the radio this morning that said car traffic has fallen 3% compared to the same time last year whilst the number of lorries on the road has fallen 12%. The number of traffic jams is down and average time spent in a traffic jam has decreased.
I guess you pays your money, you gets the results you want.
As to the price of cars in the OP, that's ignoring the fact that the EU acted against the car manufacturers who were blatantly ripping off UK consumers. Identical models could be found up to 25% cheaper on the continent.
Another thing affecting the price of cars is the recession, as if that needed pointing out. With car sales falling through the floor, of course prices are going to fall.
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Post by swl on May 8, 2009 15:37:56 GMT
Oh while I'm at it - a 1200 Ford Fiesta couldn't pull a greased stick out of a pig's arse, that's why they cost bugger-all.
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Post by sesley on May 8, 2009 15:46:28 GMT
those pictures on tv of rows and rows of unsold cars,what a waste, they might as well see if they can recycle anything from them as scrap since they are just rusting out in the open.,who wants to buy rusty cars?
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Post by Patrick on May 8, 2009 16:04:33 GMT
The fuel priceds seem to have a affect on food prices, you can go in a supermaket for a few things and before you know it ,bread,milk and a paper costs 3 to 4 pounds altogether,people who live on the Islands like Skye have even higher food costs because of the fuel prices and taxes I know it's irrelevant - cos folk would just drive off to where food was cheaper anyway - but you would have thought supermarkets could use costs at their city stores to subsidise the prices in rural areas? After all - they pay their staff lower wages in the North than the South yet the prices stay the same (mainly) across the country. |
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Post by Patrick on May 8, 2009 16:08:27 GMT
Oh while I'm at it - a 1200 Ford Fiesta couldn't pull a greased stick out of a pig's arse, that's why they cost bugger-all. ........and just try telling the kids today that we used to drive around in 850cc'ers! ;D Shocking! Honda N600 anyone? The best 1.2 - based on our testing around the Lake District - is the Renault Clio. I don't know what they've done to it but it beats the 206, 207, the Punto and last model Fiesta for perkiness. |
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Post by Patrick on May 8, 2009 16:13:07 GMT
those pictures on tv of rows and rows of unsold cars,what a waste, they might as well see if they can recycle anything from them as scrap since they are just rusting out in the open.,who wants to buy rusty cars? The thing is - there have always been rows of unsold cars. Manufacturers have just been lucky for a good few years, to be able to sell them all, quickly. 30 years ago there were rows of unsold cars sitting up to their wheelarches in stagnant water waiting to go to the showrooms. One reason the Japanese made headway in the cost department back then is that they used to make each car "at the last minute". Parts would be supplied "At the last minute". So if sales dropped, it wasn't to hard on their pockets. Recently they've just got a bit greedy - had they kept their ears to the ground and realised what was happening, in the marketplace, one presumes they could merely have slowly cut production little by little to adjust to the situation. Surely the old mantra of Supply and Demand is written in stone somewhere. Supply what is demanded with a little bit over - not supply for the hell of it and hope someone demands! Imagine if we did that with food? |
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Post by everso on May 8, 2009 17:10:57 GMT
Oh while I'm at it - a 1200 Ford Fiesta couldn't pull a greased stick out of a pig's arse, that's why they cost bugger-all. I had two Fiestas and had accidents in both of them (both not my fault btw) I now drive a Mondeo like a good Essex girl. |
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Post by riotgrrl on May 9, 2009 21:53:15 GMT
The fuel priceds seem to have a affect on food prices, you can go in a supermaket for a few things and before you know it ,bread,milk and a paper costs 3 to 4 pounds altogether,people who live on the Islands like Skye have even higher food costs because of the fuel prices and taxes I know it's irrelevant - cos folk would just drive off to where food was cheaper anyway - but you would have thought supermarkets could use costs at their city stores to subsidise the prices in rural areas? After all - they pay their staff lower wages in the North than the South yet the prices stay the same (mainly) across the country. Sorry; I missed this. I missed this pathetic and predictable plea from the rural-dwellers for further subsidies from those of us who live in cities. We already live in hell and pay higher tax so that you can demand an ambulance within 10 minutes regardless of the fact that you have CHOSEN to live in the middle of nowhere. We already subsidise your post offices, your GPs, your schools with about five pupils (while ours are crammed into schools 1000 strong where only half the pupils speak English.) How much more do you want to bleed us dry? |
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Post by Patrick on May 9, 2009 22:02:36 GMT
Sorry; I missed this. I missed this pathetic and predictable plea from the rural-dwellers for further subsidies from those of us who live in cities. We already live in hell and pay higher tax so that you can demand an ambulance within 10 minutes regardless of the fact that you have CHOSEN to live in the middle of nowhere. We already subsidise your post offices, your GPs, your schools with about five pupils (while ours are crammed into schools 1000 strong where only half the pupils speak English.) How much more do you want to bleed us dry? Er, yoou're the North as well - and I live in a city! I daresay your local Tesco doesn't pay anything like what it pays employees at it's Basingstoke Tesco. No one is subsidising anyone (here) - although both you and I are probably subsidising the South - My Council Tax is higher than many Southern towns, so I for one am not bleeding well bleeding you dry - but in the same boat so to speak. |
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Post by riotgrrl on May 9, 2009 22:09:08 GMT
oh yes for sure. The South of England is disgracefully over-subsidised in both hidden and obvious expenditure by the rest of the UK.
Absolutely.
For sure.
Be it 'London allowances' for civil servants, or company profits being spent on headquarters . . all the way Pats.
Unity and Personhood.
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Post by swl on May 9, 2009 22:12:16 GMT
In what way do people in the cities pay higher taxes?
My Council Tax was actually £30 a year dearer on Arran than in Stirling. I had no street lighting, no mains water, 2 policemen, nearly non-existent public transport and I had to take my rubbish half a mile to the roadside for collection. There was one social worker position shared between two people, the council sports centre was demolished and replaced with an expensive Lottery-funded one. There was no Community Education Department, no public swimming pool and the Library only opened two days a week. Our roads were so pot-holed people planted christmas trees in them and buses were forbidden from driving some routes because their windscreens kept shattering.
Tell me again how people born, raised and living in rural areas are bleeding the cities dry.
Incidentally, where do you think the food on your plate, sorry we're talking Glasgow here, your newspapers comes from?
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Post by Patrick on May 9, 2009 22:24:34 GMT
My Mum felt the same in rural Cumbria - at one point the second home owners there got the council to put up some street lights! Apart from that they even had to salt their own roads in the winter. Just the rubbish collection then and that was about it. Council tax there was silly too. When the Second Home owners asked for even more street lighting she moved out - that was not what she moved to Cumbria for!  |
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Post by housesparrow on May 10, 2009 5:38:23 GMT
I too am surprised at the idea that urban people are subsidising the rural dwellers. From my own experience (and both me and OH have worked in local government for many years) exactly the opposite is true.
Local authorities get most of their money from central government sources, and areas of urban deprivation usually attract higher subsidies. I know this happens where I live, where we (in the rural district) are very much the "poor relations" of our urban neighbours when it comes to government grants and services. Admittedly, this is partly due to a tight-wad Tory council who has refused to spend money over the years and finds that if it now tries to raise council tax it will be penalised.
So far as Tesco wages are concerned - well, you might be surprised to know that in my corner of the thriving south east the minimum wage is very much alive and well. Tesco does pay a little above it, I grant you - but house prices are generally higher than the north.
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Post by housesparrow on May 10, 2009 7:24:41 GMT
I should perhaps add that that comparison is confined to the area I know in the south east. It may not apply elsewhere!
Where I do stand with Riotgrrrl is when rural dwellers start asking for cheap fuel because they "have" to drive further. The reason why there re no shops or buses left in the back of beyond is because they are full of those people she speaks of - those who choose to live there, travel into towns to work and shop there. So now the country is full of "haves" (car owners) and "have nots".
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Post by Patrick on May 10, 2009 8:39:32 GMT
Where I do stand with Riotgrrrl is when rural dwellers start asking for cheap fuel because they "have" to drive further. The reason why there re no shops or buses left in the back of beyond is because they are full of those people she speaks of - those who choose to live there, travel into towns to work and shop there. So now the country is full of "haves" (car owners) and "have nots". Don't get me started on how when we didn't have a car in the countryside we'd happily walk the five miles into town or the next village for shopping - even when my brother and I weren't even in double figures age wise! Try telling that to the 4x4 owning Mums driving ten minutes down the road to Primary School today!  |
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Post by Patrick on May 10, 2009 8:51:07 GMT
So far as Tesco wages are concerned - well, you might be surprised to know that in my corner of the thriving south east the minimum wage is very much alive and well. Tesco does pay a little above it, I grant you - but house prices are generally higher than the north. Interesting comparison of job ads last year - Tesco £5.25 ph. Aldi £7.65ph - My Mum - who chats to anyone - nearly - had a friend at the local Safeways in Penrith - where there was regular murmurings of discontent at the difference paid between them and the Southern branches. My good lady, who works for a Global Company was lucky enough to transfer from the South to the North and keep her salary of some £16k - Had she applied for the same job at her office other than a transfer - she'd have been paid just £13k The starting rate for her office is £11k which a cleaner in London might get! The starting rate for her office down South is £14k. She has also been deliberately held back on salary increases because she earns more than her line manager does up here - whereas other people in the office have seen pay rises of 4% approximately, she has only been awarded around 2%. She's currently on £17k but if she was to re-transfer down South to the job she did before - she would be on about £1500 a year more. Same job, same pressures, same hours. Cheapskate company. We pay higher council taxe here than down South too! So it's not as if the cost of living away from house prices is any cheaper! |
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