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Post by everso on May 15, 2009 16:37:14 GMT
Man, I'm enjoying the discomfort of the politicians. Although every new tale of their crafty shenanigans is making my eyes bulge and my jaw grit, at the same time, I'm kind of liking it too.
How about you?
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Post by Patrick on May 15, 2009 21:48:13 GMT
Man, I'm enjoying the discomfort of the politicians. Although every new tale of their crafty shenanigans is making my eyes bulge and my jaw grit, at the same time, I'm kind of liking it too. How about you? Fab little egg on face moment on HIGNFY tonight too - with telly quote from one of the chaps who's been on the programme. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2009 6:33:00 GMT
Now this is just what I normally love to sound off about , but it seems too simple -everyone agrees and feels the same as I do , utterly unbelievable . FOOD - why? why? why? . These people are RICH and they grub around for every little penny they can . Words fail .
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Post by riotgrrl on May 16, 2009 8:47:32 GMT
Everyone is agreeing so much that I have felt obliged to take a contrary position on the Orchard out of wickedness.
TBH, what I'm not liking is the way the media is leaking this in a controlled way, drip by drip. They (the media) are manipulating us. I would rather the whole darn lot had been put up online so we could all see it together in its entirety.
I would like to see how many of them were at it and, more importantly, how many weren't.
I would like to be able to assess if one party was more 'at it' than another.
I would like the information, and not the spin, and the ability to make a cool assessment based on ALL the facts.
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Post by bonbonlarue on May 16, 2009 9:24:10 GMT
But hasn't this 'scandal' happened before? I seem to remember similar outrage on many previous occasions.
Nothing changes. [Particularly nice to see Clare Short get it though]
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Post by Patrick on May 16, 2009 9:27:23 GMT
Well, that's the Torygraph for you! I cannot believe that there aren't more Conservative evil doers in this - Barely a mention of the Hamilton bloke and his undeclared biscuit by comparison! You would never have guessed that they started it all in the first place! Or the first ones to be caught, anyway! One man and his moat is all we've had so far!
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Post by swl on May 16, 2009 10:13:22 GMT
Everyone is agreeing so much that I have felt obliged to take a contrary position on the Orchard out of wickedness. TBH, what I'm not liking is the way the media is leaking this in a controlled way, drip by drip. They (the media) are manipulating us. I would rather the whole darn lot had been put up online so we could all see it together in its entirety. I would like to see how many of them were at it and, more importantly, how many weren't. I would like to be able to assess if one party was more 'at it' than another. I would like the information, and not the spin, and the ability to make a cool assessment based on ALL the facts. We have a choice. Either the media release this information or the politicians do. Either way it's going to be done through a discriminating lens. What amazes me is MPs know this is coming out but they're not stepping forward before the story breaks. If someone pre-empted the Telegraph by coming forward and saying "I claimed x amount which was wrong and I've repaid it" they would go up just a wee bit in my estimation. The fact that they aren't doing this suggests to me that they honestly see nothing wrong in their expenses. They simply cannot comprehend how the public view this. It's a sign of how detached politicians have become from reality. And it really doesn't matter that there are so-called "honest" politicians in there. Where were they when all this was going on? The fact that so many identical scams like house-flipping were going on simultaneously suggests to me that they were talking about it to each other. I've been told that when a new MP of whatever party joins Westminster, he is advised to make a call on Michael Martin at his earliest opportunity. The Speaker then tells him exactly what to claim, how to claim it and how to work the system. Indeed, he was doing this for years before he became Speaker. That's exactly why he became Speaker when it was actually a Conservative's turn. He was the first Speaker to actively campaign for the position and when he was visiting MPs to seek their vote, he knew exactly where the expenses skeletons were buried. Which in turn is why so few politicians are calling for his head now, despite his obvious complicity in this and other scandals. He's got them by the short and curlies. |
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Post by riotgrrl on May 16, 2009 10:24:29 GMT
Interesting what you say about Michael Martin; I'd not heard that before but it certainly sounds credible.
The issue with him is that he is dyed-in-the-wool West-of-Scotland-Labour, which is to say, neither 'new' nor 'old' Labour, but Stalinist, power-hungry, corrupt Labour of the type that have run my city for decades; the type who see political power and its trappings as their birthright for a few years work as a trade unionist. Merit or talent doesn't enter the equation. It's all about time-serving.
However, can we all ensure that we refrain from calling him 'Gorbals Mick'. He's not a Southside boy at all. Nothing to do with us. I declare UDI for the Southside!!! (Well, if Kosovo can do it, why can't we?)
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Post by riotgrrl on May 16, 2009 10:24:58 GMT
I would still like to see all the information online without comment so that we can search and analyse it ourselves from the primary source.
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Post by swl on May 16, 2009 10:27:40 GMT
As the Telegraph said, there's over a million seperate pieces of paper. I don't think the public would know where to start, far less begin collating it and running comparison.
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Post by riotgrrl on May 16, 2009 10:28:33 GMT
As the Telegraph said, there's over a million seperate pieces of paper. I don't think the public would know where to start, far less begin collating it and running comparison. Put it on an Excel database. Why should I trust the hacks at the Torygraph to do my sifting for me and reach the same conclusions? |
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Post by Patrick on May 16, 2009 10:41:13 GMT
Presumably the office where all the claims are submitted has the information all tied up in neat little bundles (the word escapes me - "correlate?") and put on a computer database for accounting purposes?
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Post by everso on May 16, 2009 14:53:42 GMT
Yes, I'd like to see the MPs who had no dodgy claims. I fear there are very few though. Agree with BonBon regarding Clare Short  |
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Post by housesparrow on May 17, 2009 8:43:02 GMT
Yes, I'd like to see the MPs who had no dodgy claims. I fear there are very few though. Agree with BonBon regarding Clare Short Yes, doesn't it make you feel better when someone so very sanctimonious is caught with her fingers in the till? Though I have to confess I didn't know she had been. I bet no-one is being scrutinied more closely than Nick Clegg! Both Labour and Tories must be going through his claims with a fine tooth comb to see if they can catch him out. |
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Post by bonbonlarue on May 17, 2009 8:58:09 GMT
30 odd years ago in Handsworth Ms Short was well known in local pubs and bought lots and lots of beer. Not for the likes of us of course, it was quite clear whose vote she wanted.
And boy, how they laughed as she left...free beer! You don't get that in Delhi.
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Post by Flatypus on May 18, 2009 2:42:08 GMT
Doesn't anybody find it just a little bit convenient that this falls directly after bankers awarding themselves millions on top of excessive salaries and expenses for making a total balls-up of gambling our money entrusted to them for their personal benefit? Who hasn't boasted of fiddling expenses, nicking stuff from work, pushing allowances to the extreme of their letter and to Hell with their 'spirit'? So MPs are supposed to [represent us, not to to be moral superiors. But how convenient that theycan be 'caught' pushing expenses just like everybody else when the real Lords of the Land have just been caught out behaving as Lords of the Land always have without a damn in the world for anybody or anything except what they can rip off? Even the politicians admit that they are not in control, these unelected arrogant plutocrats answerable to nobody and to whom our 'representatives' represent us and get kicked in the face run the real show.
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Post by housesparrow on May 18, 2009 6:54:54 GMT
Who hasn't boasted of fiddling expenses, nicking stuff from work, pushing allowances to the extreme of their letter and to Hell with their 'spirit'? Me. ~~~searches in vain for halo smiley~~~~~ |
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Post by Patrick on May 18, 2009 10:12:37 GMT
I think normal people with no qualms about helping themselves to the Post It Notes in the stationery cupboard is because they work for faceless organisations who give them little recognition for the work they do whilst the CEO walk off with the fat profits.
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Post by trubble on May 18, 2009 11:01:58 GMT
30 odd years ago in Handsworth Ms Short was well known in local pubs and bought lots and lots of beer. Not for the likes of us of course, it was quite clear whose vote she wanted. And boy, how they laughed as she left...free beer! You don't get that in Delhi. But they obviously voted too.  |
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Post by trubble on May 18, 2009 11:03:40 GMT
Who hasn't boasted of fiddling expenses, nicking stuff from work, pushing allowances to the extreme of their letter and to Hell with their 'spirit'? Me. ~~~searches in vain for halo smiley~~~~~ We have one but Alph defaced it:   I don't think I have either but I might have selective memory. Certainly never boasted anyway. I remember the time my own personal pen went off to a meeting without me and never came back, a nice pen too. I consider that I have been pilfered more than I've pilfered |
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