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Post by Patrick on Dec 5, 2008 9:15:38 GMT
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Post by trubble on Dec 5, 2008 10:48:18 GMT
Eight year olds with earrings?.... tschtch. Roll eyes. etc.
Mother's defence:
"When I got them (her ears) pierced I said to her that it was the last time she could get them done because she got them done when she was 4 and they gorr infected so I've waited a long time..."
She's offered to make her kid wear ear muffs during breaktime or to tape the ears up but the school says she can be in the classroom but not go out at playtime because of safety.
Head:"that could make it worse, if you can imagine a child grabbing the muffs or the tape that could make the ears rip..."
Mum: "She's 8, she's not 3!"
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Post by Patrick on Dec 5, 2008 11:21:08 GMT
Yes, I can imagine eight year olds with earrings, I remember a friend's sister being like that. If a four year old wanted earrings - you'd just give them clip ons wouldn't you? Sure H&S can be taken too far - but the matter wouldn't have arisen if the ears hadn't been pierced in the first place, 'cos, surely the rules were there in the first place!
Mother was very eloquent wasn't she?
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 5, 2008 18:06:14 GMT
OK, I confess.
Uberteen (age 16) has her ears pierced 4 or 5 times and her belly button pierced.
Queen of Troubled Teens (aged 15) has ears pierced once and her tongue pierced.
My permission and presence were there for the first ear-piercing and for nothing after that. If they get their ears pierced they have to keep the earrings in for 6 weeks. If this period crosses into school term time, they should cover up the sleepers with elastoplasts for gym. Once the ear piercing (I have no idea how the other piercings work) has 'healed' after 6 weeks they can remove their earrings for gym.
I can't quite understand why a school wouldn't let them in with ear piercings at all. That seems a bit judgemental.
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Post by trubble on Dec 5, 2008 23:47:23 GMT
Well the kid was 8 not a teenager for a start and the school did let her in, they just said she couldn't wear the earrings during breaktime running around in the playground.
Mini-Trubs has a friend with a lip piercing and tongue and belly button and eyebrow, couple of ear piercings and I might have forgotten others...the friend's teacher is my cousin and god daughter). I hear the intimate details of the debate from both sides, the kids, the mother and the teacher. The school has a rule limiting piercings and multiple ones are forbidden as are tongue ones and the teen knew that when she got them done (much to mum's chagrin).
Part of the reason is 'health and safety' at school and part of the reason is standards that the school wish to maintain that include uniforms, behaviour when going home from school, a certain degree of decorum, all the usuals...
I say, rules is rules.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 0:11:27 GMT
Any rules on " Prince Alberts" ?
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Post by trubble on Dec 6, 2008 0:23:01 GMT
I expect they are banned for sure, Arf, it being a girls' school.
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 6, 2008 10:06:09 GMT
Well the kid was 8 not a teenager for a start and the school did let her in, they just said she couldn't wear the earrings during breaktime running around in the playground. Mini-Trubs has a friend with a lip piercing and tongue and belly button and eyebrow, couple of ear piercings and I might have forgotten others...the friend's teacher is my cousin and god daughter). I hear the intimate details of the debate from both sides, the kids, the mother and the teacher. The school has a rule limiting piercings and multiple ones are forbidden as are tongue ones and the teen knew that when she got them done (much to mum's chagrin). Part of the reason is 'health and safety' at school and part of the reason is standards that the school wish to maintain that include uniforms, behaviour when going home from school, a certain degree of decorum, all the usuals... I say, rules is rules. I say, the purpose of schools is to educate children, not groom them for respectability and conformity. |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 6, 2008 14:49:18 GMT
I say, the purpose of schools is to educate children, not groom them for respectability and conformity. I'm not so sure. OK, not "conformity" because they ought to encourage individual thought and creativity. There is no harm though in making sure that a pupil understands the need to look tidy, be clean and that sometimes a face full of piercings don't always impress. Which is digressing a bit, because we're only talking about a set of earings. None the less - at one of my schools - "Clean Shoe" inspections were the norm - and one teacher was a positive menace when it came to the appropriate application of shoe polish! (Thank Zark they invented liquid polish around then!) Nevertheless - with parents insisting that little Janie or Peter are allowed to where Jewelery in school, where will it end? Will Nurses now insist on it for the benefit of the patients? Will there be an increase in bits of precious metal being found in people after surgery because it becomes a question of human rights for people to be able to wear jewelery? I know, over the top again. but surely another reason for not allowing bling in school is to not give an excuse for bullying and stealing and a "Yours is better than mine" culture that can be so damaging? |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 6, 2008 16:24:18 GMT
I say, the purpose of schools is to educate children, not groom them for respectability and conformity. I'm not so sure. OK, not "conformity" because they ought to encourage individual thought and creativity. There is no harm though in making sure that a pupil understands the need to look tidy, be clean and that sometimes a face full of piercings don't always impress. Which is digressing a bit, because we're only talking about a set of earings. None the less - at one of my schools - "Clean Shoe" inspections were the norm - and one teacher was a positive menace when it came to the appropriate application of shoe polish! (Thank Zark they invented liquid polish around then!) Nevertheless - with parents insisting that little Janie or Peter are allowed to where Jewelery in school, where will it end? Will Nurses now insist on it for the benefit of the patients? Will there be an increase in bits of precious metal being found in people after surgery because it becomes a question of human rights for people to be able to wear jewelery? I know, over the top again. but surely another reason for not allowing bling in school is to not give an excuse for bullying and stealing and a "Yours is better than mine" culture that can be so damaging? Adults have a choice as to whether they become, e.g. a nurse. If the rules of a job are that they can't wear jewellery or whatever, an adult has a choice whether to take up that job or not. Our children have no choice. They have to go to school. They have to be squidged through the sausage factory of education whether it is useful, interesting, engaging, or not. Checking that their shoes are shined too is horrible. It's no wonder that children rebel when we try to squash them into our convenient little school/prison/institutions with rules designed to erase their individuality completely and turn them into little clones for capitalism. Children are not numbers; they are free . . eh . . .children. |
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Post by chrislord on Dec 6, 2008 18:45:03 GMT
I'm not so sure. OK, not "conformity" because they ought to encourage individual thought and creativity. There is no harm though in making sure that a pupil understands the need to look tidy, be clean and that sometimes a face full of piercings don't always impress. Which is digressing a bit, because we're only talking about a set of earings. None the less - at one of my schools - "Clean Shoe" inspections were the norm - and one teacher was a positive menace when it came to the appropriate application of shoe polish! (Thank Zark they invented liquid polish around then!) Nevertheless - with parents insisting that little Janie or Peter are allowed to where Jewelery in school, where will it end? Will Nurses now insist on it for the benefit of the patients? Will there be an increase in bits of precious metal being found in people after surgery because it becomes a question of human rights for people to be able to wear jewelery? I know, over the top again. but surely another reason for not allowing bling in school is to not give an excuse for bullying and stealing and a "Yours is better than mine" culture that can be so damaging? Adults have a choice as to whether they become, e.g. a nurse. If the rules of a job are that they can't wear jewellery or whatever, an adult has a choice whether to take up that job or not. Our children have no choice. They have to go to school. They have to be squidged through the sausage factory of education whether it is useful, interesting, engaging, or not. Checking that their shoes are shined too is horrible. It's no wonder that children rebel when we try to squash them into our convenient little school/prison/institutions with rules designed to erase their individuality completely and turn them into little clones for capitalism. Children are not numbers; they are free . . eh . . .children. Oh my goodness that's far too anarchic for Stub Crouch. Or is Pat's place like some radical commune...all pot smoking and growing one's own?  |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 6, 2008 18:48:41 GMT
All girls and most boys will get their ears pierced at some stage, sort of a rite of passage...the school is being a bit of a King Canute IMO.
Set a limit, one set of ears, no noses tongues or other bits...job done, everybody happy.
(I had my ear pierced when I was about 10...like most other lads I knew...it caused no major probs at my primary school)
AH
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 6, 2008 18:51:02 GMT
Oh my goodness that's far too anarchic for Stub Crouch. Or is Pat's place like some radical commune...all pot smoking and growing one's own? The stubby has many faces, many facets...tis like a strange mysterious diamond thingamabobawotsit.  AH |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 6, 2008 20:56:41 GMT
Adults have a choice as to whether they become, e.g. a nurse. If the rules of a job are that they can't wear jewellery or whatever, an adult has a choice whether to take up that job or not. Our children have no choice. They have to go to school. They have to be squidged through the sausage factory of education whether it is useful, interesting, engaging, or not. Checking that their shoes are shined too is horrible. It's no wonder that children rebel when we try to squash them into our convenient little school/prison/institutions with rules designed to erase their individuality completely and turn them into little clones for capitalism. Children are not numbers; they are free . . eh . . .children. I wonder where the rebels went ? Most of those coming out of university these days have been squashed through that sausage machine so much that they are clones! I think it's causing a lot of the problems. They seem incapable of thinking outside the box! The very nature of the education environment turns out the clones - if any measure of discipline was thrown into the mix, I don't think it would make much difference! In fact - if it did force them to "rebel" wouldn't that be a good thing? Here, I thought you were in favour of capitalism? ;D When I was at school,I remember reading about the school in Essex (I think) where there are no rules. There have been one or two creative genii come out of there. If you relax rules at school though, how will children learn that real life has real boundaries that can't be broken? n.b; These thoughts are not necessarily the opinions of the author and are merely chucked in in the interests of discussion. |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 6, 2008 20:59:31 GMT
Oh my goodness that's far too anarchic for Stub Crouch. Or is Pat's place like some radical commune...all pot smoking and growing one's own? The stubby has many faces, many facets...tis like a strange mysterious diamond thingamabobawotsit. AH Yeah! Wot he said! Radical. Laid Back and Deep Deep Discussion!  |
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Post by riotgrrl on Dec 7, 2008 14:13:49 GMT
Question Everything. It might well be that the British Parliamentary system (for example) is the best in the world and we should be proud of it and should work to sustain and support it. But don't believe that because someone told you, or because it fits with your mindset. Question it. Read about it. Find out about it. School teaches you not to question things. This is what is bursting my nut on JSG at the moment, is the tendency for people to say 'well x is true, so y and z are also the case' . . . are they? Prove it! We know that the Labour Party are shite. They've always been shite. I live in the one-party Stalinist city state that is Glasgow. I don't need mad BNP supporters on JSG to tell me Labour are shite. But it DOES NOT FOLLOW that everything they do and everything they've ever done is also shite. Khali, my favourite deity (q: should that be 'diety'?') is perceived in the West as being violent because of all the severed heads she holds and so on. But the demons she has slain are the demons of ignorance. (I have a bit of a head cold. I suspect I may be coming over a bit mad here, as the snot is blinding me and my head is fuzzy wuzzy to the max.) I despair of the lack of intellectual questioning on MBs - people just adopt a world view and then try to fit every fact into it. The world isn't like that. It's more complicated, more nuanced, more beautiful than that. OK. Here's Khali. Or it might be Kali. Anyway, she rocks. She makes the Virgin Mary look crap. (P.S. I can't take time off work this week as I have IMPORTANT MEETINGS all week. If my head is still quite as fuzzy they may end up being very interesting.)  The severed head she is holding is the demon of ignorance, and each of the heads she wears on the chain round her neck represents a letter of the alphabet, showing that education and intelligence must fight against the demons of ignorance. (Yeah, and ok, she's sort of standing on the corpse of her dead husband, but it's not what you think.) |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 7, 2008 21:05:07 GMT
I like the Aztec and Maya Gods myself...most of them are very cool. Coatlicue (Teteoinan) is one of my faves...she is madcrazy (but so were most south and central american civilizations...). Coatlicue, also known as Teteoinan (also transcribed Teteo Inan) ("The Mother of Gods"), is the Aztec goddess who gave birth to the moon, stars, and Huitzilopochtli, the god of the sun and war. She is also known as Toci, ("Our Grandmother"), and Cihuacoatl, ("The Lady of the serpent"), the patron of women who die in childbirth.
The word "Coatlicue" is Nahuatl for "the one with the skirt of serpents". She is referred to by the epithets "Mother Goddess of the Earth who gives birth to all celestial things", "Goddess of Fire and Fertility", "Goddess of Life, Death and Rebirth" and "Mother of the Southern Stars".
She is represented as a woman wearing a skirt of writhing snakes and a necklace made of human hearts, hands and skulls. Her feet and hands are adorned with claws (for digging graves) and her breasts are depicted as hanging flaccid from nursing. Coatlicue keeps on her chest the hands, hearts and skulls of her children so they can be purified in their mother's chest.
Almost all representation of this goddess depict her deadly side, because Earth, as well as loving mother, is the insatiable monster that consumes everything that lives. She represents the devouring mother, in whom both the womb and the grave exist.
According to the legend, she was magically impregnated while still a virgin by a ball of feathers that fell on her while she was sweeping a temple. She gave birth to Quetzalcoatl and Xolotl. In a fit of wrath her four hundred children, who were encouraged by Coyolxauhqui (her daughter), decapitated her. The god Huitzilopochtli afterward emerged from Coatlicue's womb fully grown and girded for battle and killed many of his brothers and sisters, including decapitating Coyolxauhqui and throwing her head into the sky to become the Moon. In a variation of this legend, Huitzilopochtli himself is conceived by the ball-of-feathers incident and emerges from the womb in time to save his mother from harm.  AH |
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Post by Patrick on Dec 7, 2008 23:16:01 GMT
You read the stories of the Greek Gods and Hindu Gods, and it's enough to turn you religious! Some simply fabulous stories - and they were all strong characters - either having a lot of fun or kicking arse in some way or other. Therein lies the trouble with modern day/Christian stuff - who are all a load of do-gooder wimps! No substance whatsoever! No fun either!
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Post by Patrick on Dec 7, 2008 23:22:40 GMT
Question Everything. It might well be that the British Parliamentary system (for example) is the best in the world and we should be proud of it and should work to sustain and support it. But don't believe that because someone told you, or because it fits with your mindset. Question it. Read about it. Find out about it. School teaches you not to question things. I think I was spoiled in that respect. At Primary we had a headmaster who encouraged us to read, encouraged us to find out about things, be it on nature walks (the school was surrounded by woods) or in the classroom. I look back and I think where on Earth was the curriculum there then? There did not seem to be any structure to it! Be it going out into the woods and collecting ferns, acorn cups and leaves. Sticking them onto a yoghurt pot, spraying it gold and filling it with peppermint creams, To going into another class room (there were only two) and listening to a French Linguaphone record. To me the school taught me to think and to be curious about things. The only thing it didn't do was tell me how serious the 11+ exam was.  Now I read that school just teaches you to pass exams. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Dec 7, 2008 23:42:29 GMT
You read the stories of the Greek Gods and Hindu Gods, and it's enough to turn you religious! Some simply fabulous stories - and they were all strong characters - either having a lot of fun or kicking arse in some way or other. Therein lies the trouble with modern day/Christian stuff - who are all a load of do-gooder wimps! No substance whatsoever! No fun either! Yeah, it's a shame that gods only son was a lazy hippy peacenik. >thumb down< Immagine if he'd been more of a crazed Caligula sot of guy...now that would've made for a stormy, violent, seedy, exciting New Testement...and the last supper would've been a kick ass orgy of obscene debauchery and sleaze...probably ending with Judas being horribly murdered and eaten or something! AH |
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