Factory Dairy Farm in the news again.

[Patrick]

The company behind plans to build a so-called super dairy in Lincolnshire has discussed a new application with local residents. Senior Lecturer in Business and Economics at Cranfield School of Management Sean Rickard and Chief policy adviser of Compassion in World Farming Peter Stevenson discuss the many concerns; the smell, the pollution, the effect on house prices - but particularly, the welfare of the cattle. Page links to "Today" audio.

What a nasty piece of work the chap promoting this is - just another corporate clone trying to drip feed the public with his propaganda. There is absolutely no need for such a facility as this - According to a New Economics Foundation Study about what the UK imports and exports. In 2004 the UK sent 10,200 tonnes of milk and cream to France, yet imported 9,900 tonnes of the dairy goods from France. So where is the demand? There's obviously gallons of the stuff slopping around as it is - not long ago we still had an EU butter mountain we produced so much dairy produce. The only reason they want to set something like this up is greed and a quick profit. Though if they start producing too much of the stuff again I can't see how they'll even managed that when the price crashes through the floor - presuming that these places start springing up all over.

[Weyland]

"New figures [November 2009] show that last year 134 million litres of milk was imported into Britain, up from just 84 million litres in 2006. In the same period, exports fell from 511 million litres to 456 million."

So the UK exports far more milk than we import. But production fluctuates according to time of year and weather, so sometimes we have to import to fill the gap. That's what the economists say, so we can safely discard it.

As somebody said on Today, the EU is banning battery chicken farms, and we're building battery dairies.

I know the supermarkets kick farmers around, but I find it very difficult sometimes to have much sympathy for them. Where were they when practically every other industry was being stuffed into the shredder?

[Patrick]

I would love to know how self sufficient we actually could be. Not to mention how much money could be saved from trading less of the same amounts of stuff with each other. I suppose if we tried that though folk would complain about us becoming 'uncompetitive' or being too much of a 'closed shop' etc.

I will go and have a nose around.

[housesparrow]

Needless to say, Compassion in World Farming takes a dim view saying

If Nocton Dairies have their way, Lincolnshire could soon be home to a so-called ‘super dairy’. Located just outside the village of Nocton, the farm’s giant sheds could house more than 8,000 cows, kept indoors for most of their lives.

In 1967, dairy farmer, Peter Roberts founded Compassion in World Farming in response to the wide-scale emergence of factory farming. In Lincolnshire in 2010, his rallying cry against the unnatural confinement and suffering of farm animals is needed more than ever.

The proposed construction of the UK's largest dairy farm poses a giant threat to animal welfare and all those who believe that humane and sustainable farming is the only viable way to feed our planet.

The plans have given rise to widespread objections by local residents, politicians and animal welfare organisations. Over 172 Members of Parliament signed a House of Commons Early Day Motion (EDM 1037) opposing the ‘super dairy’ and echoing the concerns of local residents. Compassion in World Farming submitted its own planning objection to the scheme.

Help us prepare for a long fight
We are gearing up for a long battle. Because, whatever decision the local council eventually makes about Nocton Dairies, there will be much to do. The farm’s backers seem determined to introduce a US-style intensive dairy system to the UK, and others will no doubt follow in their wake. We are absolutely determined that this should never happen.

[Patrick]

Aug 7, 2010 18:21:58 GMT housesparrow said:

The plans have given rise to widespread objections by local residents, politicians and animal welfare organisations. Over 172 Members of Parliament signed a House of Commons Early Day Motion (EDM 1037) opposing the ‘super dairy’ and echoing the concerns of local residents. Compassion in World Farming submitted its own planning objection to the scheme.

The EDM was in March. I see it was signed 'across' the benches. One can't help wondering whether it will still make any headway in the new Government. After all - We now have a Pro-GM Government happy to promote the crops and spin on behalf of the bio-technology companies (one of which used to employ the environment secretary). It is sad though that seemingly for every step forward we have in animal welfare - we can still take a step backwards - despite how happy and healthy the caged up cows are supposed to be still.

[Deleted]

Only just seen this

I should really give this a long reply , but only have a little while ....

As most of you know I milked cows up to about 60 of them on a tenanted unit . This unit had had no investment and was laid out in such a way that made it very time consuming to run and with the price that the supermarkets finally started to ratchet down after the demise of the MMB it was unviable . Previously it had given a really good standard of living to the tenant with 50 cows ( 20 years ago the average herd size ) I lost money over the ten years I was there - because when you make no money- you have no money to take it to the next level which has to be expansion ( or exit ! )
There has been no reason for this other than the supermarkets wishing to increase their margin - they don't care if the producer makes a profit or not .
Without this un-necessary pressure most farms would still be milking 75 cows using family labour with cows grazing in the summer and making ( in farming terms ) a good living .
I now milk on a 400 cow unit - a very up to date well laid out set up - we can milk 200 cows an hour . ( my parlour was about 40 ) Some of the cows do graze in the summer - most do not - because of the logistics of moving large numbers of cows to very large areas of grazing .Apart from that grass is not an ideal diet for high producing cows .

Many in the farming industry hate this proposal - but this is being set up by a group of 9 farmers who have seen the way things have gone and are going . The industry has been driven to this .....

The only solution really is to have a way for everyone in the chain to retain a decent margin - in the last 13 years most has been retained by the supermarkets . An ombudsman ?

[Patrick]

Nice one. Personally I think milk should still be delivered (at a reasonable price) - and maybe even taken out of the hands of the supermarket! As long as it supported local producers and suppliers though. I wouldn't really want another behemoth like Unigate selling milk that was already 3 or 4 days old as happened back then. Simply because they were so big.

[alanseago]

I remember in the 1960s, milk being delivered in a horse-drawn float. You took your jug and the man would ladle a gill into it from a large churn.

N.B. descriptive terms may vary from region to region.

[alanseago]

WHO IS MAUREEN?

[alanseago]

Found it myself now. So There!

[Patrick]

I told you yesterday - but did you listen?? ;D ;D

Aug 22, 2010 21:29:54 GMT Patrick said:

Aug 22, 2010 16:56:13 GMT alanseago said:

Incidentally Mr. Patrick sir, who is Maureen? I am in Forrin remember.

It's the name used in a godawful advert for a telephone directory service. "Phone Maureen - she's cheap". I hate the idea that we now have to pay for something that used to be free (192) and they then tell us that it's good for us to have competition and be saving money. I had the occasion to call Maureen back in February and for the number of the National Travel Helpline to get some bus timetable information. She got the number wrong.

First and last time I'm calling that one. Trouble is - all these companies are just working off phone book CD's that you or I could buy off BT ourselves if we wanted - and presumably it's then up to these firms when they update their software. Presumably some are better than others!

[alanseago]

11:29pm! That is Easter Sunday in France.

[housesparrow]

Aug 23, 2010 9:07:53 GMT @arealfarmer said:

Only just seen this

I should really give this a long reply , but only have a little while ....

As most of you know I milked cows up to about 60 of them on a tenanted unit . This unit had had no investment and was laid out in such a way that made it very time consuming to run and with the price that the supermarkets finally started to ratchet down after the demise of the MMB it was unviable . Previously it had given a really good standard of living to the tenant with 50 cows ( 20 years ago the average herd size ) I lost money over the ten years I was there - because when you make no money- you have no money to take it to the next level which has to be expansion ( or exit ! )
There has been no reason for this other than the supermarkets wishing to increase their margin - they don't care if the producer makes a profit or not .
Without this un-necessary pressure most farms would still be milking 75 cows using family labour with cows grazing in the summer and making ( in farming terms ) a good living .
I now milk on a 400 cow unit - a very up to date well laid out set up - we can milk 200 cows an hour . ( my parlour was about 40 ) Some of the cows do graze in the summer - most do not - because of the logistics of moving large numbers of cows to very large areas of grazing .Apart from that grass is not an ideal diet for high producing cows .

Many in the farming industry hate this proposal - but this is being set up by a group of 9 farmers who have seen the way things have gone and are going . The industry has been driven to this .....

The only solution really is to have a way for everyone in the chain to retain a decent margin - in the last 13 years most has been retained by the supermarkets . An ombudsman ?

Consumer power must provide part of the answer

People have become conscious about the life of a battery hen and I believe that Sainsbury is one supermarket that refuses to sell them (although they do sell barn perchery eggs).

So if people believe "cows need grass" they won't buy the milk.

Are the cows on your farm housed in separate pens, or are they free to amble around in a big barn? I guess that would be the equivalent of the barn hen which seem tolive an okay kind of life - I know that sometimes even "free range" hens seem to prefer staying in the barn.

But I walk my dog through fields grazed by channel island cows (not sure which island!) and that's the way I think they should live. Am I being sentimental?

[riotgrrl]

When my old Dad was farming, his cows roamed free as nature intended over hill and dale all summer. But in the winter they were basically tied up in a barn which was mucked out daily.

I think that's normal with cattle, that they get a pretty rotten time in the winter.

[alanseago]

It was exactly like that in Lancashire when I was a calf. Inside during the cold weather off down the hill in spring. The farmer used to call them at milking time and there was a lead cow that walked them home.

[housesparrow]

The only person I know who keeps cows is now in his 70s and now keeps them out all year because it is easier for him, but they are not a dairy herd. He told me that in the days when he did overwinter, they were always happy to come into the barn in the autumn, but he added that he put them out when they got restless in the spring.

Sooner or later some scientist may conclude that milk from cows that never live outdoors isn't healthy.

[aubrey]

ARF - wouldn't the supermarkets just ignore an ambudsman?

They seem to have ignored everything else (while still putting pictures of happy farmers on their produce - who are these people?).