Cameron's next "Big Plan"

[Patrick]

From April, the Office for National Statistics will ask people to rate their own well-being with the first official happiness index due in 2012.

Labour also attempted to measure quality of life when it was in power.

Then Prime Minister Tony Blair eventually abandoned the idea, after it proved too difficult to pin down.

But Mr Cameron, who first floated the idea of a "happiness index" in 2005, when he was running for the leadership of the Conservative Party, argues that gross domestic product (GDP) - the standard measure of economic activity used around the world - is no longer up to the job.


The BBC have reported on this - filming Cameron as he set it out this morning. It's interesting to note that a brief look through the newspapers "UK" and "Politics" pages doesn't turn up anything. They really seem to be falling over themselves with this one!

Another one - like "The Big Society" to be quietly kicked into the long grass eventually?

Actually, I think it's pretty easy to gauge the mood of the nation - it will be that lot getting off their heads on drink at the weekend because they are (psychologically speaking) so bloody miserable at the inequalities of life. Pretty much the only way to cheer people up would be a bit of wealth redistribution. Be it from the Rich to the Poor - or by forcing the larger companies to pay salaries equally from the North to the South - instead of the £2-4000+ difference that currently exists. Despite the fact that in day to day running costs it is pretty much the same wherever you live in the UK.

[tarzanontarmazepam]

"I'm not bad mate...how are you mate?...Oh I'm fine thanks mate..."

That's the usual banter we reserve for aquaintances isn't it? So how many would lie and say they are 'happy' or even 'okay' when they feel they are at the edge of a precipice? At least 75% I'd say.

Which reminds me of the story of a local man who was sat on the girder of a bridge overlooking the river. Two police officers were attempting to talk him down...a doctor arrived and a family member.

A man driving by in his car recognised the distraught man and pipped and shouted out his window... 'Brian! Are you alright mate?' Brian looked down and shouted back 'Not bad mate how are you?'

[everso]

This morning we had the Today programme on the radio and Mr. E. was sat sitting at the table eating his porridge. I was in the kitchen and I shouted out "Mr. Cameron is going to measure happiness"

"Measure a what?" said my husband. ;D

[Deleted]

Nov 25, 2010 17:26:00 GMT everso said:

This morning we had the Today programme on the radio and Mr. E. was sat sitting at the table eating his porridge. I was in the kitchen and I shouted out "Mr. Cameron is going to measure happiness"

"Measure a what?" said my husband. ;D

i GET that! ;D ( took a while thou...)

[everso]

Well done!

[riotgrrl]

Actually I'm all in favour of this.

Our whole society and culture is bound up in us equating success with how much money you have, and, as we old wise Stubbies know, that's bullshine.

Sure, being very poor can make you unhappy if you can't afford to eat or to socialise or to put the fire on.

But once you've got your basic needs, the rest is all gravy really.

There's a song by Willie Mason called 'Oxygen' which includes the wonderful line:

"We can be richer than industry
As long as we know that there's things that we don't really need "


Freedom costs us nothing, but to be free to what we want is surely one of the greatest happiness, to say nothing of love, comradeship, absorbing books, laughter, etc. etc. etc.

I've heard/read some of the stuff from the (slightly tree-huggerish) peeps who have been promoting these ideas of Happiness Indexs for some time, and I find them quite convincing.

Would this not be a better planet if we focussed on happiness rather than wealth?

Patrick, I disagree with you that inequality makes people unhappy. Why envy someone what they have, be it wealth, beauty, sporting prowess, or whatever? It's the envy that makes you unhappy, not the inequality.

[everso]

If you have food in your refrigerator,
clothes on your back, a roof over
your head and a place to sleep,
you are richer than 75% of this world.

If you have money in the bank,
in your wallet, and spare change
in a dish someplace, you are among
the top 8% of the world's wealthy.


I've read this before and it made me feel so lucky. Here I am, sitting in a nice warm room, with my very own computer. I've been out today and bought some Christmas presents (bah!). I'm just about to go downstairs and start getting Mr. E's tea. There's food and a bottle of wine in my fridge and, after we've eaten, we'll sit back and watch t.v. before crawling into a nice comfortable bed.

I'm one of the world's top 8%. And so, I don't doubt, is everyone else on this board.

[housesparrow]

A sense of beloning is very important to a great many people. To be surrounded by people who care about you, and people you care about, seems to be a big factor in happiness. And it doesn't really matter whether those people are family, neighbours or friends who are neither.

[Patrick]

Nov 25, 2010 17:26:00 GMT everso said:

This morning we had the Today programme on the radio and Mr. E. was sat sitting at the table eating his porridge. I was in the kitchen and I shouted out "Mr. Cameron is going to measure happiness"

"Measure a what?" said my husband. ;D

Did you do your French accent??

[Patrick]

Well, I can't equate inequality with envy. Let's call it "Balancing things out" shall we? Why should someone doing a job in Guildford be paid £2000 a year more than someone exactly the same job in Ripon? Food will be the same - Council tax will be the same - Bus and train fares will be the same! In many areas house prices will be the same! It is not the politics of envy it's simply the politics of balance.

The ultimate thing behind this "Big Plan" is that it's just window dressing. A mere diversion from the real problems in hand. What's more nothing will be done. What could they do anyway? Give everyone a Cream Egg and an extra Bank Holiday? People would need all the extra help and services that go completely against the grain of what "The Government" would like to supply. If they were serious about what makes people happy - they wouldn't be taking away disabled people's care packages - they wouldn't be selling off homeless shelters to developers to turn into luxury apartments. Just another announcement to bury some bad news under.

[everso]

Nov 25, 2010 23:31:43 GMT Patrick said:

Well, I can't equate inequality with envy. Let's call it "Balancing things out" shall we? Why should someone doing a job in Guildford be paid £2000 a year more than someone exactly the same job in Ripon? Food will be the same - Council tax will be the same - Bus and train fares will be the same! In many areas house prices will be the same! It is not the politics of envy it's simply the politics of balance.

The ultimate thing behind this "Big Plan" is that it's just window dressing. A mere diversion from the real problems in hand. What's more nothing will be done. What could they do anyway? Give everyone a Cream Egg and an extra Bank Holiday? People would need all the extra help and services that go completely against the grain of what "The Government" would like to supply. If they were serious about what makes people happy - they wouldn't be taking away disabled people's care packages - they wouldn't be selling off homeless shelters to developers to turn into luxury apartments. Just another announcement to bury some bad news under.

I just looked up house prices in Guildford. The cheapest one I could find on Rightmove (a 3 bed semi) was for £239,950 for one needing "a complete refurbishment".

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-16393587.html


On the other hand I saw a 3 bed semi in need of "a little updating" in Rippon for £159,950.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-30385919.html

There was also a 3 bed semi in Lancaster for £84,950.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28344787.html


And another one in Chester for £99,950

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-25354810.html


House prices vary quite a bit still.

[Patrick]

I'm aware of the difference in prices. I wasn't making direct comparisons with those towns. "In most areas" I said. In and around Kendal prices are little different from Kent. prices of four bed detached in Lancaster are not much different from three or four bed detached in Tunbridge Wells - about £290 - £300,000. If I moved my house half an hour up the road I could stick another £150,000 on the asking price such is the inequality. Prices around the Lakes are not far off outer London prices. Cornwall house prices are now on a par with London! Yet the wages do not match in the South West in the same way they don't in the North. The only £80,000 3 bed semis in Lancaster are in the estate where the police need a police escort. The true price range is £110 to £230,000. Ripon of course is up itself like Kendal so will have higher prices too. in the villages on the way to the Dales house prices are stupid yet the householder will have little in the way of services.

Still. That's not the point. For the day to day running costs there is little difference between the n North and South.

[housesparrow]

Some quick on-line research reveals that the average wage for a full time job in the Hastings travel-to-work area is £18,000, which is higher than I thought. But it is still (also from an un-scientific google) a few thousand less than the average wage in Cornwall. Okay, people living there do have the option of travelling to London, but the quickest journey by train is about 1 hour 50 minutes, and that doesn't account for the travelling each end. Not to mention the cost, about £150 a week I think (without looking it up)

But house prices are relatively low, and that must affect things; a huge proportion of people's income goes on paying the mortgage or rent.

[housesparrow]

I may be wrong about the low house prices: this is according to the New Statesman:



Despite its location in affluent East Sussex, Hastings has endemic problems with poverty and deprivation, exacerbated by the recent downturn. Research by the Centre for Cities found that the average full-time wage is the lowest in the UK, at £349 a week, although it is one of the least affordable places to live.





But we do have the sea, and that seems to be a big attraction to many people, who thinks it adds to their quality of life. Me, I can take or leave it; so far as I'm concerned it is cold, noisy and cuts in half your travel-to-anywhere opportunities..

[riotgrrl]

Nov 25, 2010 23:31:43 GMT Patrick said:

Well, I can't equate inequality with envy. Let's call it "Balancing things out" shall we? Why should someone doing a job in Guildford be paid £2000 a year more than someone exactly the same job in Ripon? Food will be the same - Council tax will be the same - Bus and train fares will be the same! In many areas house prices will be the same! It is not the politics of envy it's simply the politics of balance.

The ultimate thing behind this "Big Plan" is that it's just window dressing. A mere diversion from the real problems in hand. What's more nothing will be done. What could they do anyway? Give everyone a Cream Egg and an extra Bank Holiday? People would need all the extra help and services that go completely against the grain of what "The Government" would like to supply. If they were serious about what makes people happy - they wouldn't be taking away disabled people's care packages - they wouldn't be selling off homeless shelters to developers to turn into luxury apartments. Just another announcement to bury some bad news under.

But Patrick, we are a free people.

If a job pays more in Guilford we are free to move to Guilford and seek that job.

Regional variations are part of the good stuff about the UK, be they in accent, cuisine, culture or house prices.

The person in Ripon is not forced to stay there from birth to death.

[riotgrrl]

(And let's face it, those of us who don't live in the South East, on the whole, have a far better quality of life. Less travel-to-work time, greater access to parks and mountains and the outdoors, cheaper taxis, less crush, etc. etc. While I love London, I really wouldn't want to live in most of the rest of the South East. Sure there are some lovely parts, including lovely parts of Essex, but much of the SE seems to be just rows and rows of modern houses all identical and without character, all over-priced, and the only amenity within walking distance is the Tesco . . .thinking of the 'village' (which was just a housing estate really) where my cousin and his family lived when they were first married.)

[everso]

Precisely Riot! You are correct. I was born in the South-East and it's home to me, but every time we travel back from our annual week's holiday in Devon, once we get to the M25 things start to look grim. Maybe we deserve a bit more in pay for living in such a crap part of the UK?

Everytime we go down to Devon we say "Oh, if only we lived here" It's such a lovely area. But then again, where would we go for a holiday if we lived in Devon?

[aubrey]

Barnsley.

(Well, that's where I'm having my holiday. More precisely; Thurnscoe

[housesparrow]

The south east may not have the spectacular scenery of Scotland but it does have better weather and sensible daylight hours in winter.

[riotgrrl]

Nov 26, 2010 19:47:43 GMT housesparrow said:

The south east may not have the spectacular scenery of Scotland but it does have better weather and sensible daylight hours in winter.

Possibly true. But any time I have been down South in the summer I've found that it gets dark awfully early compared to the gloriously long summer evenings we get up here.