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Post by rjpageuk on Feb 23, 2009 10:03:04 GMT
I think you have a good point but you are ignoring the people who registered and left. They were gathered from the same sources and method but its content is such that it appears to be an extremist and/or racist board. About 50 people post there each day and there are about 600 members still listed. You are the mathematical guy, don't the numbers tell you that the method of attracting people is not the underlying reason that the board is the way it is. I think you misunderstood the point I am trying to make. The "flavour" of a board comes from the views of the vocal majority of the board. New people who have different views tend to get turned off and new people who have similar views tend to stay. I think that the method of attraction for JSG (people who are fed up of being moderated on the BBC) means you end up with a disproportionate number of people with extreme (specifically authoritarian views) and hence this kind of view has grown there as newcomers who sympathise stay. Admin can influence the flavour of the board via moderation and can for example check a move toward extreme viewpoints. This has never really happened on JSG as opinion was rarely moderated. For quite a long time there were a dedicated and stubborn band of us who tried to argue against the "flavour" of the board but in the end most of us gave up and left and few new stubborn individuals have come along to replace us. What is the moderation policy there? I used to know, I think I did anyway. It was free speech within some decent and wide boundaries. What would you have to do to get suspended there now? There appears to be very little moderation nowadays, the main way this has manifested itself is in the much more common personal abuse which tended to always be previously moderated. I think it is just a case of there being few moderators around actively looking after the board. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 23, 2009 10:07:29 GMT
I enjoy reading different opinions provided they are well argued and often they are not. Posters who say "stuff human rights!" or words to that effect, pop in a self-congratulatory avatar and sit back just don't interest me. JSG is far worse for that than the Orchard. People don't actually discuss or debate anything; they just pontificate. "These New Labour PC multicultural scum and their human rights nonsense have brought us to this dreadful state of affairs where 12 year olds are fathering babies" . . .say. Now, for any rational person, that would be a conclusion. In order to reach that conclusion you have to set up your arguments. But no, some posters just post their conclusion and expect everyone to applaud at their robust free speech. If you ask them 'which human right is it that you associate with underage sex', or 'what is the official policy of multiculturalism and where might I read it' . . or really anything of a reasonable nature, you get dog's abuse and more ranting. I can't be bothered with that approach. I like to actually discuss, to give and take, to concede points, and discover new ones in the course of it. I think a lot of posters are like teenagers, just repeating what their friends are saying without actually being capable of thinking through and justifying their position. Plus, both MO and JSG suffer from the obsession with issues about race and religion. It's incredibly dull. |
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Post by housesparrow on Feb 23, 2009 10:59:31 GMT
riotgrrl : I wouldn't disagree with any of that - my criticism was directed more towards JSG than the MO. I don't go to JSG much - the last time I did was by your invitation, to join in the prostitution debate.
I suppose if we get fed up with certain topics, the answer if to start more threads. If we don't, we have only ourselves to blame!
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Post by swl on Feb 23, 2009 11:10:58 GMT
<<I think a lot of posters are like teenagers, just repeating what their friends are saying without actually being capable of thinking through and justifying their position.>>
That's bang on the money. I like the boards because it forces me to consider why I believe in X, Y or Z. A good thread makes you justify why you think the way you do and sometimes a good poster can actually make you re-evaluate your position. Sometimes you my change your mind but other times, by researching your argument you find you were more right than you thought you were.
JSG does none of that. Person A says "Black" so you go away and find evidence for "White", but that just leads Person A to shout "Black Black Black" whilst ironically deriding you for being stupid, uneducated or naive.
A good debate can be refreshing, but only if you enter it prepared to listen twice as much as you speak. Without good debates on these boards, I doubt if I would ever have considered doing the OU.
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Post by chrislord on Feb 23, 2009 11:39:00 GMT
I enjoy reading different opinions provided they are well argued and often they are not. Posters who say "stuff human rights!" or words to that effect, pop in a self-congratulatory avatar and sit back just don't interest me. JSG is far worse for that than the Orchard. People don't actually discuss or debate anything; they just pontificate. "These New Labour PC multicultural scum and their human rights nonsense have brought us to this dreadful state of affairs where 12 year olds are fathering babies" . . .say. Now, for any rational person, that would be a conclusion. In order to reach that conclusion you have to set up your arguments. But no, some posters just post their conclusion and expect everyone to applaud at their robust free speech. If you ask them 'which human right is it that you associate with underage sex', or 'what is the official policy of multiculturalism and where might I read it' . . or really anything of a reasonable nature, you get dog's abuse and more ranting. I can't be bothered with that approach. I like to actually discuss, to give and take, to concede points, and discover new ones in the course of it. I think a lot of posters are like teenagers, just repeating what their friends are saying without actually being capable of thinking through and justifying their position. Plus, both MO and JSG suffer from the obsession with issues about race and religion. It's incredibly dull. That's unfair Riot I wouldn't say that any time in the past or present the MO has been 'obsessed with race and religion.' Nor have we been dull in the past. I am sure you will agree with me that the MO was perhaps the best board around for a few months last year. However I'm sure the VK still finds some time to slag me and it off. |
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stephan
Lovely, Happy & Gorgeous!
Posts: 278
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Post by stephan on Feb 23, 2009 11:47:52 GMT
I`m new here so best mind my Ps and Qs-I had time for both VK and most of MO-I still do.
Chris could be a prat at times but I never took back my offer of a cuppa as he was also capable of some good posts as well.
I`m here to have a gentle natter about this and that-not to revive internicene wars .
If that does not suit -well so be it
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Post by riotgrrl on Feb 23, 2009 11:53:58 GMT
JSG is far worse for that than the Orchard. People don't actually discuss or debate anything; they just pontificate. "These New Labour PC multicultural scum and their human rights nonsense have brought us to this dreadful state of affairs where 12 year olds are fathering babies" . . .say. Now, for any rational person, that would be a conclusion. In order to reach that conclusion you have to set up your arguments. But no, some posters just post their conclusion and expect everyone to applaud at their robust free speech. If you ask them 'which human right is it that you associate with underage sex', or 'what is the official policy of multiculturalism and where might I read it' . . or really anything of a reasonable nature, you get dog's abuse and more ranting. I can't be bothered with that approach. I like to actually discuss, to give and take, to concede points, and discover new ones in the course of it. I think a lot of posters are like teenagers, just repeating what their friends are saying without actually being capable of thinking through and justifying their position. Plus, both MO and JSG suffer from the obsession with issues about race and religion. It's incredibly dull. That's unfair Riot I wouldn't say that any time in the past or present the MO has been 'obsessed with race and religion.' Nor have we been dull in the past. I am sure you will agree with me that the MO was perhaps the best board around for a few months last year. However I'm sure the VK still finds some time to slag me and it off. Chris, for a while the MO was definitely the best board in town. The VK mob and the non-lunatic JSG mob all came together and had some great laughs and larks, as well as some pretty good serious discussions. No doubt about it; it was a huge success. Then it imploded into a mass of fall-outs and resignations, all spurred on by your fallout with VK, and with the slimeboard on the Cyberlounge where the pot was being constantly stirred. The 'Other Boards' thread was always intended to disrupt other boards, and it did so. We all played into the hands of those who want to insult other posters and stir up online battles for their own amusement. Mea culpa on that one. Your decision to let Hornblower and Wizawaz on to the board proved unpopular, but the board continued on after that. It was quieter - XpremX wasn't posting, Mary-Mary left (after you told her to F off in the Chatbox) so two of the star posters weren't around. Gus joined the board - and I'm not blaming you for that, as it wasn't your fault - and basically took over, starting endless threads about nothing. Obviously the minute Gus joined there were several posters (not just me . . but not that many either) who just stopped posting. Now gus posts a lot, but his style is not one that encourages discussion or debate. His posts are either so deliberately offensive that posters just sigh, and resolve not to rise to him, or they are so dull that nobody can be bothered replying. Sorry, I wasn't keeping notes so it's possible this interpretation isn't quite right. I don't claim it as definitive. It's just how I vaguely remember it. While this has all been going on, people have drifted off elsewhere - to here, to VK, to GWD, a bit to the Bothy, (but the Bothy is a bit dead from neglect to be honest, as neither SWL nor I really start threads or recruit members or do the things that good Admins should do). If you want to kick the Orchard back into life I'd suggest getting some really interesting threads going. If you had sufficient volume of posters to drown out Gus it would be easier for people who want to ignore him, to ignore him. And those who like him - Sesley & you so far as I can see - can continue to 'enjoy' his little jokes. And by 'interesting threads' I don't mean sub-JSG ones. If I want to read about ethnic minorities and Muslims and the like I would go straight to JSG - why bother with imitations? To succeed a board needs to have either unique posters - not ones who are all on lots of other boards together - or a unique selling point (like here on Stub, where the USP is inconsequentiality and fluffiness.) That's just my view, and it could be completely wrong. |
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Post by housesparrow on Feb 23, 2009 12:03:45 GMT
In my opnion there are far too many boards. I sometimes want to start a thread and am stumped to know where to put it, so I don't put it anywhere for fear of offending the admin elsewhere.
Why don't you all join up (yup, including with Freespeach) and we can have many more lively debates?
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Post by motorist on Feb 23, 2009 12:48:45 GMT
In my opnion there are far too many boards. I sometimes want to start a thread and am stumped to know where to put it, so I don't put it anywhere for fear of offending the admin elsewhere. Why don't you all join up (yup, including with Freespeach) and we can have many more lively debates? Because there are some people who will refuse to post on the same board as others (they split between the boards you mention). Also, many people would absolutely refuse to be on a board where certain other people were Admins |
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Post by chrislord on Feb 23, 2009 12:59:39 GMT
That's unfair Riot I wouldn't say that any time in the past or present the MO has been 'obsessed with race and religion.' Nor have we been dull in the past. I am sure you will agree with me that the MO was perhaps the best board around for a few months last year. However I'm sure the VK still finds some time to slag me and it off. Chris, for a while the MO was definitely the best board in town. The VK mob and the non-lunatic JSG mob all came together and had some great laughs and larks, as well as some pretty good serious discussions. No doubt about it; it was a huge success. Then it imploded into a mass of fall-outs and resignations, all spurred on by your fallout with VK, and with the slimeboard on the Cyberlounge where the pot was being constantly stirred. The 'Other Boards' thread was always intended to disrupt other boards, and it did so. We all played into the hands of those who want to insult other posters and stir up online battles for their own amusement. Mea culpa on that one. Your decision to let Hornblower and Wizawaz on to the board proved unpopular, but the board continued on after that. It was quieter - XpremX wasn't posting, Mary-Mary left (after you told her to F off in the Chatbox) so two of the star posters weren't around. ssp Gus joined the board - and I'm not blaming you for that, as it wasn't your fault - and basically took over, starting endless threads about nothing. Obviously the minute ssp Gus joined there were several posters (not just me . . but not that many either) who just stopped posting. Now ssp Gus posts a lot, but his style is not one that encourages discussion or debate. His posts are either so deliberately offensive that posters just sigh, and resolve not to rise to him, or they are so dull that nobody can be bothered replying. Sorry, I wasn't keeping notes so it's possible this interpretation isn't quite right. I don't claim it as definitive. It's just how I vaguely remember it. While this has all been going on, people have drifted off elsewhere - to here, to VK, to GWD, a bit to the Bothy, (but the Bothy is a bit dead from neglect to be honest, as neither SWL nor I really start threads or recruit members or do the things that good Admins should do). If you want to kick the Orchard back into life I'd suggest getting some really interesting threads going. If you had sufficient volume of posters to drown out ssp Gus it would be easier for people who want to ignore him, to ignore him. And those who like him - Sesley & you so far as I can see - can continue to 'enjoy' his little jokes. And by 'interesting threads' I don't mean sub-JSG ones. If I want to read about ethnic minorities and Muslims and the like I would go straight to JSG - why bother with imitations? To succeed a board needs to have either unique posters - not ones who are all on lots of other boards together - or a unique selling point (like here on Stub, where the USP is inconsequentiality and fluffiness.) That's just my view, and it could be completely wrong. Oh weeeeeeellllll...none of it matters anyway does it really? I do however feel that Gus has been demonised to a certain degree and he hasn't really set out to cause trouble on the MO...his biggest problem is demanding attention hence the saturation of threads he starts. But there's not a lot I can do as It would be against my priniciples to disown someone if they haven't done anything wrong on my watch. |
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Post by chrislord on Feb 23, 2009 13:00:25 GMT
why is there 'ssp' before Gus's name?
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Post by Patrick on Feb 23, 2009 13:17:10 GMT
why is there 'ssp' before Gus's name? "Silly Silly Poster" of course! Thought everyone knew that!   |
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Post by Patrick on Feb 23, 2009 14:01:05 GMT
Look folks! BOLD LETTERS!
I think this discussion has run it's course, anything more will be going round in circles. Probably.
Keep it fluffy folks.
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