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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 11:52:27 GMT
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 18:05:50 GMT
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Per Unit Pricing is a sensible approach to the problem we have with alcohol.
I'm really not losing sleep over people having to pay £4 rather than £3 for a bottle of wine.
But the fact you can get 3 l of strong cider (about 20 or 30 units of alcohol) for about £2.50 is an outrage.
I'm sick of all this 'how dare they persecute the moderate drinkers' stuff. If you're a moderate drinker, then you're only going to be paying a little bit more. And if you're a heavy drinker then tough, because even if you are a nice middle class person, you are still possibly going to cost the NHS a huge amount of money by the damage you are doing to your health.
There is, obviously, a massive link between street violence and alcohol, but there is also a massive link between domestic violence and alcohol and, as we know, domestic violence is not the preserve of the poor, young and badly educated.
Alcohol is dirt cheap compared to 20 or 50 years ago. It has come down in price in real terms to ludicrously cheap levels.
It's a poison, more dangerous and responsible for more death and social problems, than the majority of illegal drugs.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 18:59:12 GMT
Alcohol is dirt cheap compared to 20 or 50 years ago. It has come down in price in real terms to ludicrously cheap levels. It's a poison, more dangerous and responsible for more death and social problems, than the majority of illegal drugs. Funnily enough, you could say the same about cars and motoring! Having never indulged in massive beer buying frenzies in Supermarkets I've never recognised the cheapness of it. Beer comes from pubs, wine comes from supermarkets and the odd single bottle of ale. Twenty years ago a pint of Stella in The West Midlands was around £1.23. Travel down the road to Gloucester and it was about £1.30. Back in the South East it was £1.60. Nowadays, having moved sensibly onto beer instead of the fizzy stuff - I tend to be rather shocked to have to hand over £2.50 for a pint of bitter, and therefore feel it's more expensive now - but I'm an old git who loves a bit of nostalgia of an evening. I hope any increase in duty on beers will come with a package of rate rebates for Independent non-chain public houses. Otherwise we will carry on losing them in an even faster rate than ever - and then it'll only be the supermarkets to buy from! I would like to see a return to the old licencing laws - with maybe a little bit more of an extension on a Sunday. I remember being in Guernsey years ago and the old Sunday trading rules still apply there - and I must say it makes the place rather blissful as a result. It was the Conservatives who pushed through the reforms for opening hours - and as more and more bars and trendy café bars opened one could foresee that before long town and city centres would become no go areas on a Weekend eveing! Did they listen? No - the MP's in their bunkers - went on about promoting a "Mediterranean Café culture" When all the intelligent people living near town centres could enisage was even more piles of vomit outside their front doors on a Sunday Morning. It was a Tory member of my local council who once - a few years into this - refused planning permission for some new flats in town suggesting that "It is not preferable to have residential property in a town centre environment" so alienating the thousands of folk who already did! Of course, the town centre was only like this - because he had "made it so". By all means target the kiddies fizzy stuff to stop them buying it - but leave the unfashionable stuff alone! |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:07:38 GMT
Alcohol is dirt cheap compared to 20 or 50 years ago. It has come down in price in real terms to ludicrously cheap levels. It's a poison, more dangerous and responsible for more death and social problems, than the majority of illegal drugs. Funnily enough, you could say the same about cars and motoring! And I do. Whenever the subject comes up. I thought those 'petrol warriors' (or whatever they were) a few years back were being ludicrous. |
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Post by everso on Mar 16, 2009 19:07:49 GMT
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Per Unit Pricing is a sensible approach to the problem we have with alcohol. I'm really not losing sleep over people having to pay £4 rather than £3 for a bottle of wine. But the fact you can get 3 l of strong cider (about 20 or 30 units of alcohol) for about £2.50 is an outrage. I'm sick of all this 'how dare they persecute the moderate drinkers' stuff. If you're a moderate drinker, then you're only going to be paying a little bit more. And if you're a heavy drinker then tough, because even if you are a nice middle class person, you are still possibly going to cost the NHS a huge amount of money by the damage you are doing to your health. There is, obviously, a massive link between street violence and alcohol, but there is also a massive link between domestic violence and alcohol and, as we know, domestic violence is not the preserve of the poor, young and badly educated. Alcohol is dirt cheap compared to 20 or 50 years ago. It has come down in price in real terms to ludicrously cheap levels.
It's a poison, more dangerous and responsible for more death and social problems, than the majority of illegal drugs. Absolutely! In my teens, with what I earned (and remember I worked in a bank in London then), I could never have afforded to drink like kids do today. My salary was nothing like the amounts they earn today (in real terms) and, as you say, alcohol was much dearer. |
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Post by sesley on Mar 16, 2009 19:08:27 GMT
i don't think more expensive alchol will stop alcoholics because expensive ciggies don't stop people smoking, if they are so addicted, they will sacrifce the rent money to pay for it. have you ever seen a stinking rich smoker.alcoholic/druggie apart from Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:09:40 GMT
i don't think more expenive alchol will stop alcohlics because expensive ciggies don't stop people smoking, if they are so addicted, they will sacrifce the rent money to pay for it. have you ever seen a stinking rich smoker.alcoholic/druggie apart from Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse. Proper, real, out-of-control alcoholics are not the problem. It is the health and social costs of casual, binge and regular drinkers that are bleeding us all dry. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:10:21 GMT
OK, not casual drinkers (that's ME!). But binge drinkers and regular drinkers.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 19:16:12 GMT
Absolutely! In my teens, with what I earned (and remember I worked in a bank in London then), I could never have afforded to drink like kids do today. My salary was nothing like the amounts they earn today (in real terms) and, as you say, alcohol was much dearer. Now, when Blairboy was in charge - his bestest mates were Sainsbury and Leahy (Tesco). How much the special relationship between these two and Labour still is (and we know Sainsbury still donates) is where the crucial decision on alcohol pricing rests. It isn't in the hands of Government - it's in the hands of the Government's paymaster. Which is potentially why Gordon's response has been "lukewarm". Whether they know good weather is about to be upon us, I don't know, but recently our Sainsbury's has been stacking up it's crates of cheapy lager at the entrance, I notice. |
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Post by sesley on Mar 16, 2009 19:25:53 GMT
its football finals,rugby tours, mothers day, easter and spring is turning into summer with the evenings lightening up,meaning garden partys,birthday partys,engagement partys anything partys.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 19:26:47 GMT
Funnily enough, you could say the same about cars and motoring! And I do. Whenever the subject comes up. I thought those 'petrol warriors' (or whatever they were) a few years back were being ludicrous. Well, I was pleased just last year to see what I'd been quoting at people was still the case - 'cos the last set of statistics I had were ten years old - and what's more it was the RAC who said it! stub-crouch.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=neattidyplease&action=display&thread=48 |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:30:02 GMT
its football finals,rugby tours, mothers day, easter and spring is turning into summer with the evenings lightening up,meaning garden partys,birthday partys,engagement partys anything partys. I'm not keen on parties Sesley. I prefer the privacy of my own home and family. I don't even like it when the kids have friends in the house. In fact, to be honest, I prefer it when Gothboy goes upstairs to play on his computer and I am left totally alone. I shoulda been a hermit. But you always realise too late that you took the wrong path in life . . . |
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Post by swl on Mar 16, 2009 19:30:34 GMT
My last spell of bar work was about 4-5 years ago. I was absolutely staggered to see just how much folk were spending - £40-50 each in a night. These were workers in the main. The women spent a bit less, (the good looking ones a lot less).
My point is, they make up the majority of visible drinkers in towns of an evening. Raising prices won't affect them much.
It will affect the bairns getting pissed on cheap cider. When I lived in Stirling, we regularly had kids who looked to be under 10 years old rolling around drunk.
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 19:33:15 GMT
its football finals,rugby tours, mothers day, easter and spring is turning into summer with the evenings lightening up,meaning garden partys,birthday partys,engagement partys anything partys. Easter, Spring, and certain bits of Autumn now tend to be where the nicest weather turns up. The Planet seems to catch itself (for our area anyway) in a glorious jetstream of one High Pressure Area after another (as it's happening this week). The trouble is we aren't ready for it - I know that by the time I realise the weather's lovely and I ought to go out and enjoy it Summer's here and the heavens have opened! |
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 19:36:17 GMT
In fact, to be honest, I prefer it when Gothboy goes upstairs to play on his computer and I am left totally alone. I shoulda been a hermit. But you always realise too late that you took the wrong path in life . . . Ah yes! That remote Crofter's cottage in the middle of nowhere with natural spring fed water supply and great big woodburning stove is calling me too! |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:39:33 GMT
In fact, to be honest, I prefer it when Gothboy goes upstairs to play on his computer and I am left totally alone. I shoulda been a hermit. But you always realise too late that you took the wrong path in life . . . Ah yes! That remote Crofter's cottage in the middle of nowhere with natural spring fed water supply and great big woodburning stove is calling me too! I was thinking more about living in a hotel room, but each to his/her own. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 16, 2009 19:40:02 GMT
My last spell of bar work was about 4-5 years ago. I was absolutely staggered to see just how much folk were spending - £40-50 each in a night. These were workers in the main. The women spent a bit less, (the good looking ones a lot less). My point is, they make up the majority of visible drinkers in towns of an evening. Raising prices won't affect them much. It will affect the bairns getting pissed on cheap cider. When I lived in Stirling, we regularly had kids who looked to be under 10 years old rolling around drunk. EXACTLY. You're very wise. For a council-raised pervoid. |
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Post by Patrick on Mar 16, 2009 19:45:58 GMT
I was thinking more about living in a hotel room, but each to his/her own. Oh! 1930's living! I used to love reading about the elegant (but slightly dusty) people living grandly in hotel suites or hotels out in "The Empire" in the books of Graham Greene or W.Somerset Maugham for instance. |
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