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Post by Patrick on Mar 18, 2009 18:31:22 GMT
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Post by trubble on Mar 18, 2009 18:38:59 GMT
This new research is backing up the old research, and the research before that, girls do better at single-sex schools but boys don't. I've always been a supporter of mixed-sex schooling but having been through it and then sent my daughter through the same co-ed system I am not convinced it plays any decent role at all for a girl -- apart from getting to meet more boys.  |
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Post by Patrick on Mar 18, 2009 18:42:23 GMT
I reckon the boys from my old place are in for a shock. Not only will they be off their own territory - but the Girls at that High School could be vicious, and were certainly tougher than our lot I reckon!
There's was no mention of what's to happen to the Girls school after they've merged, and I suspect the same thing is happening across the country - that the Government will suddenly find itself with a whole lot of new "Brown Field Sites" Smack bang in the middle of towns just waiting solve the so called housing problem!
How convenient.
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 18, 2009 21:03:10 GMT
The question is why girls do better on their own. Could it be discipline or attitudes and expectations of teachers? Could it be that teachers girls' schools believe girls disadvantaged compared to boys and therefore in single-sex schools work them harder feeling that there are no boys to interfer while in mixed, expectation that boys will be a problem rubs off?
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 18, 2009 21:06:23 GMT
The question is why girls do better on their own. Could it be discipline or attitudes and expectations of teachers? Could it be that teachers girls' schools believe girls disadvantaged compared to boys and therefore in single-sex schools work them harder feeling that there are no boys to interfer while in mixed, expectation that boys will be a problem rubs off? Could also be that girls are conditioned from a very early age not to show themselves up as being cleverer than boys. So in a mixed-gender class they hide their lights under bushels. Or could be they're too busy making googly eyes at boys to concentrate on their studies..  |
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Post by Flatypus on Mar 18, 2009 21:15:30 GMT
No, I don't think girls are conditioned not to be more intelligent than boys - rather the reverse I suspect - but a subtler point, that a lot of older women and especially teachers think so, and girls pick up on that. In effect, people who believe there is conditioning inadvertently create it. Then there's the bad boy appeal; the thick is hard attitude that suppresses intelligent boys may affect girls even more because most don't want to upstage the desirable kewl thickoes and those that do are going to follow their lead into moronic violence.
Maybe the real reason isn't in secondary school at all. Maybe it is something in primary that single-sex secondary corrects and mixed continues.
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Post by housesparrow on Mar 20, 2009 8:08:22 GMT
I would be interested to see if boys do better in single sex schools - especially those that recognise that they are boys.
I've heard it said that in the second half of last century teaching methods were changed to favour girls... lessons became less competitive, and boys (we are told) like more of a challenge than they are given.
Some weeks ago a woman researcher on Radio 4 was arguing that boys' creativity is different from girls' and teachers were sometimes dismissing their story ideas as being "silly" when they were just the sort of thing she used in her own children's books!
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Post by jean on Mar 20, 2009 9:34:27 GMT
I have not seen this new research, but the research findings that have been around for years held I think that while girls did better in single-sex schools, boys did less well.
We discussed this boys' creativity thing at some length somewhere, didn't we? Was it on the old WH board?
Have you got a link?
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Post by swl on Mar 20, 2009 9:45:22 GMT
I dunno about schools now, but 30 years ago (oh feck. How hard was it to write that!) I'd say that boys did tend to overpower girls in class. I can remember heated debates in English where the girls just got drowned out.
And it can be terribly distracting having boys and girls making eyes at each other in class. When I was in Fifth Year, my then girlfriend was in my chemistry class. To the utter despair of our teacher we underperformed hugely. We both ended up with C's.
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Post by jean on Mar 20, 2009 10:12:13 GMT
I do know that if the girls' school I attended had not been so severely segregated from the boys' school across the road fifty years ago, I could not have failed to meet Paul McCartney.
I have spent the intervening years worrying about how my life might have been different.
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luc
Fluffy!
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Post by luc on Mar 20, 2009 10:41:57 GMT
I remember whilst at my (failing) middle school (9 to 13), boys and girls were forced to sit next to each other in an attempt to curb the behaviour issues we had there. Naturally, once the initial weirdness wore off, the girls, who presumably were there to curb the excesses of the boys, began to behave just a badly as who they were partnered with. Total failure on all fronts.
I do think it is very difficult to adopt a teaching style that favours boys and girls - I always remember girls at my other schools being keen on role play and discussion, which was anathema to me, since I just wanted straight up questions with no bloody discussion or role play. Boys usually tended to do better on exams, but girls were far better at coursework, as they used to form groups to help each other, and start and finish early. The boys used to do in the last 5 minutes and just pray it was right first time. I don't know if this is a result of socialisation or just the way the sexes inherently approach problems. I know that at work I tend work on my own unless I need someone for something, whereas the women who work at my desk discuss and work together on problems, even if they are not directly connected to their division. It reminds me a lot of school sometimes!
In spite of these problems, I favour co-ed teaching, because exam results should not really be the sole focus of education. From speaking to friends, several of whom went to single sex private(public) schools, it seems there is a much stronger sense of heirarchy, and much greater negative sanctions for those children who step out of the mould that the children have chosen for everyone else to conform to. Co-ed education does allow both boys and girls to step outside these power structures, because having a diverse network of friends is more achievable - boys and girls power structures in schools very rarely interact in any meaningful way - and some children actively favour children of an opposite sex to make friends with.
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 20, 2009 11:24:59 GMT
It would've been right flipping weird just going to an all boys school...no eye candy, bra strap twanging and stuff.  AH |
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Post by swl on Mar 20, 2009 11:34:49 GMT
Why do we accept that segregation is a bad thing regarding race & ethnicity but seem to look for the positives in segregating according to gender?
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stephan
Lovely, Happy & Gorgeous!
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Post by stephan on Mar 20, 2009 12:22:42 GMT
It would've been right flipping weird just going to an all boys school...no eye candy, bra strap twanging and stuff.
Oh I`m not sure about that-towel whipping,cross country running,cold showers,rugger,cricket,fives,Latin,-sticking 1st formers heads down the bog.............these are the values our Empire was built upon
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 20, 2009 15:57:14 GMT
I do know that if the girls' school I attended had not been so severely segregated from the boys' school across the road fifty years ago, I could not have failed to meet Paul McCartney.I have spent the intervening years worrying about how my life might have been different. Jean I was out for lunch with my Mother and am therefore a bit pissed (we haven't spoken since the Christmas Peado-incident, and things have been a bit fraught). Therefore I am struggling with your negatives. Did you meet Paul, or did you not meet Paul? Which is it that you are burdened with? |
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Post by housesparrow on Mar 20, 2009 16:03:25 GMT
I have not seen this new research, but the research findings that have been around for years held I think that while girls did better in single-sex schools, boys did less well. We discussed this boys' creativity thing at some length somewhere, didn't we? Was it on the old WH board? Have you got a link? We discussed it on worralorra recently (not terribly enthusiastically) I think. Forgive me if I don't post a link to this fluffy place. As for Paul McCartney, Jean - a few years back I met him riding his horse on his land (a footpath runs through it). He had the most beautiful physique, amazing movement and deep liquid eyes. When he curled his tongue round the corner of his mouth I nearly swooned. Unfortunately he started getting a bit impatient so Sir Paul (who has not aged well) had to take him for a swift canter. |
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Post by trubble on Mar 20, 2009 16:15:42 GMT
Why do we accept that segregation is a bad thing regarding race & ethnicity but seem to look for the positives in segregating according to gender? Motives? |
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Post by trubble on Mar 20, 2009 16:21:11 GMT
From speaking to friends, several of whom went to single sex private(public) schools, it seems there is a much stronger sense of heirarchy, and much greater negative sanctions for those children who step out of the mould that the children have chosen for everyone else to conform to. Co-ed education does allow both boys and girls to step outside these power structures.. That's an interesting observation. I can apply it to my own situation and friends now I think of it. Hmm. It's true. They do, my sister's hen party had 2 men at it because her best friend is male, and from school days. I'm not so sure about that one..  .. alpha males and alpha females tended to pair off in my school and so on down the line. |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 20, 2009 17:08:19 GMT
I have no opinion. All I remember about school is the shagging, the drugs and the passing exams. And that you had to go through it before they let you start your life.
In 2 weeks both my grrls leave school FOREVER. I feel like it is some kind of milestone.
The next one will either be Uberteen's Graduation or Queen of the Troubled Teens first jail sentence, whichever comes first.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 20, 2009 17:09:44 GMT
I have not seen this new research, but the research findings that have been around for years held I think that while girls did better in single-sex schools, boys did less well. We discussed this boys' creativity thing at some length somewhere, didn't we? Was it on the old WH board? Have you got a link? We discussed it on worralorra recently (not terribly enthusiastically) I think. Forgive me if I don't post a link to this fluffy place. As for Paul McCartney, Jean - a few years back I met him riding his horse on his land (a footpath runs through it). He had the most beautiful physique, amazing movement and deep liquid eyes. When he curled his tongue round the corner of his mouth I nearly swooned. Unfortunately he started getting a bit impatient so Sir Paul (who has not aged well) had to take him for a swift canter. Housey - you totally FANCY Paul McCartney!!!! You slappa!!! |
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A.P.P.S
S C 
.. alpha males and alpha females tended to pair off in my school and so on down the line.