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Post by trubble on Mar 4, 2011 11:03:18 GMT
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 4, 2011 17:54:21 GMT
We've got our own slums in the UK...charity begins at home IMO.
Once we are living in a fully prosperous, poverty free society, then we can start with a bit of charity to other places.
AH
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Post by sesley on Mar 12, 2011 12:24:19 GMT
those slums are regulary portrayed on tv in the name of adverts for christian aid,water aid, adopt a child aid. The governments of kenya etc get loads of aid from the Uk and elsewhere and what do they ever spend it on the people, no! they spend it on shopping in Paris,London and keeping mercedes in business. The money they raised for Haiti, has any of it got the people decent houses and health? no! they are still proberly living in tents. The day i see the money aid given actually improves the lives its mean't to,then i will put a contribution in the collection plates.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2011 14:11:53 GMT
I respect your decisions about where and when & to whom to give money -- or not to give at all. It's all fair.
But just of curiosity, did either of you watch the programme?
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 15, 2011 10:59:48 GMT
Trubb, how many "starving folks living in slums" programs does one have to watch to get a handle on these things? Seen one, seen 'em all...people living like shit and going hungry, I doubt this program would have shown me anything new or of a revalatious nature (is "revalatious" an actual word? It should be, it's great!). I'm not completely oblivious or totally insensitive to these things, but the fact remains that there are people in this country living on the edge and dying when they shouldn't (maybe a few less aid programs to countries with their own fucking space programs and we could sort our own gaff out and then pass on the extra to the poverty folks). Speaking of poverty, I see you can't afford an avatar...tragic.  AH |
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 15, 2011 13:14:44 GMT
Nah, at the risk of sounding like a hippy (hippie? I'm never sure), at the end of the day, those of us who live in the UK, DESPITE our endless whingeing on about this Govt cut or this failure to adequately fund this particular aspect of the NHS or whatever or whatever . . . we are among the luckiest and wealthiest people alive on this planet.
Random factors meant that when we were born, we were born into a society of wealth beyond avarice, a society that most of the world can only look on in envy at our prosperity and health.
We are the minority on this planet. And we are the wealthy. Wealthy beyond the aspirations of most of the world.
Like all economically privileged people, we need to be aware of the poor man at the gate. We are always at risk of the majority of the world rising up to take away from us the great wealth and power that random birth has given us.
So yeah, I'll chuck a quid in the box for Comic Relief.
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Post by aubrey on Mar 15, 2011 20:08:04 GMT
JG Ballard used to say, about "Normal" suburbs (when he was accused of writing about them all the time), that suburbia was actually very uncommon, if you took a world and not UK view.
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Post by everso on Mar 16, 2011 17:51:55 GMT
Nah, at the risk of sounding like a hippy (hippie? I'm never sure), at the end of the day, those of us who live in the UK, DESPITE our endless whingeing on about this Govt cut or this failure to adequately fund this particular aspect of the NHS or whatever or whatever . . . we are among the luckiest and wealthiest people alive on this planet. Random factors meant that when we were born, we were born into a society of wealth beyond avarice, a society that most of the world can only look on in envy at our prosperity and health. We are the minority on this planet. And we are the wealthy. Wealthy beyond the aspirations of most of the world. Like all economically privileged people, we need to be aware of the poor man at the gate. We are always at risk of the majority of the world rising up to take away from us the great wealth and power that random birth has given us. So yeah, I'll chuck a quid in the box for Comic Relief. Riot, this is just what I say. We are so privileged to live in the "first world". I love this: If you woke up this morning healthy ... remember that you are much better off than the million who will not survive this week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the fear and loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pain of starvation ... you are better off than 500 million people in the world. If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep ... you are more comfortable than 75% of the people in this world. If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, spare change in a drawer, a pocket or somewhere ... you are among the top 8% of the world's most wealthy people. If you can read this, remember that there are over two billion people in the world who cannot read at all. If you have your own PC at home, you own something that costs more than an average person earns in an entire year in Somalia or Sierra Leone. If you are 15 and you live in the UK, you can expect to live to about 77 if you are a boy, or 81 if you are a girl. In the USA you'd expect to live to 75(b) and 80(g), but if you are born in Botswana, you are already half way through your expected time on earth! On average you wouldn't live to see your 31st birthday in Botswana. If you were lucky enough to be born in Andorra though, you will probably live to be 83. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 18, 2011 14:07:30 GMT
Poverty is relative.
Somebody living in the UK who has no money, up to their eyes in debt and goes hungry for a couple of days is just as worried about their situation than some third worldist.
AH
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Post by trubble on Mar 19, 2011 18:33:20 GMT
Hmmm. Well, families living in the slums listening to their baby coughing but unable to afford the doctor's fee are quite worried seeing as their previous baby died with the same cough (treatable with a simple medicine) v NHS. Hmm.
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Mar 19, 2011 22:19:58 GMT
Emotive flabberwaffle. Not gonna work on me.
Anyway, the Great British public raised seventy four million quid to throw to the poverty people over the weekend, and they'll do the same next year, and the year after that (like we've been doing for decades)...and nothing will change until the third world starts helping itself.
AH
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Post by swl on Mar 28, 2011 20:24:16 GMT
If you are 15 and you live in the UK, you can expect to live to about 77 if you are a boy, or 81 if you are a girl. In the USA you'd expect to live to 75(b) and 80(g), but if you are born in Botswana, you are already half way through your expected time on earth! On average you wouldn't live to see your 31st birthday in Botswana. If you were lucky enough to be born in Andorra though, you will probably live to be 83. A boy living in Calton (Glasgow) today can expect to live to just 54. The world average is 65. Botswana is actually 50.7 according to Wiki Glasgow's not alone in having some shockingly deprived areas - Liverpool and Manchester have their fair share too but it's appalling that the lowest life expectancy in Europe is found in one of the richest nations. Charity really does begin at home. |
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Post by everso on Mar 28, 2011 23:48:03 GMT
If you are 15 and you live in the UK, you can expect to live to about 77 if you are a boy, or 81 if you are a girl. In the USA you'd expect to live to 75(b) and 80(g), but if you are born in Botswana, you are already half way through your expected time on earth! On average you wouldn't live to see your 31st birthday in Botswana. If you were lucky enough to be born in Andorra though, you will probably live to be 83. Botswana is actually 50.7 according to Wiki Glasgow's not alone in having some shockingly deprived areas - Liverpool and Manchester have their fair share too but it's appalling that the lowest life expectancy in Europe is found in one of the richest nations. Charity really does begin at home. Might that not have something to do with lifestyle though, swl? For instance, that average statistic probably won't include a huge number of babies and young children dying (like it would have in this country years ago or, indeed, in a third world African country today), but instead probably would include a fairly large number of smokers, drinkers, drug adicts and unhealthy eaters which brings the average down to 54. Nobody has to starve in this country nowadays. Having said that, I do feel that we will be donating money to African nations until Kingdom Come, and it won't make a blind bit of difference. |
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Post by swl on Mar 29, 2011 0:19:25 GMT
Poverty takes all kinds of different forms, but it's just as devastating and lethal in the end. Unfortunately, we're addicted to the pot-bellied, flies & snot black kiddy type and seemingly blind to the stuff closer to home.
I'm sorry if that sounds pompous and arrogant, but if we spent more time sorting out our own society it would ultimately benefit everyone. Throwing money at the perennial African basket case is just a sop to guilty consciences unwilling to tackle the difficult questions here.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 29, 2011 9:30:34 GMT
A boy living in Calton (Glasgow) today can expect to live to just 54. The world average is 65. Botswana is actually 50.7 according to Wiki Glasgow's not alone in having some shockingly deprived areas - Liverpool and Manchester have their fair share too but it's appalling that the lowest life expectancy in Europe is found in one of the richest nations. Charity really does begin at home. Might that not have something to do with lifestyle though, swl? For instance, that average statistic probably won't include a huge number of babies and young children dying (like it would have in this country years ago or, indeed, in a third world African country today), but instead probably would include a fairly large number of smokers, drinkers, drug adicts and unhealthy eaters which brings the average down to 54. Nobody has to starve in this country nowadays. Having said that, I do feel that we will be donating money to African nations until Kingdom Come, and it won't make a blind bit of difference. Exactly Everso. SWL's stat is a bullshit political stat. (I know that, through his political life, SWL does know what he's talkinga bout when he talks about the poverty in Glasgow, so I'm not decrying that - but his stat is bullshit.) Remove from teh death stats every body who dies of heroin and associated health problems. Remove from the death stats everybody who dies of alcohol and associated health problems. Suddenly the average life expectancy of this poor little Weegie baby starts to look a lot more healthy . . . |
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Post by swl on Mar 29, 2011 10:16:21 GMT
Except the heroin and alcohol deaths are a part of the poverty.
How many people die of heroin overdoses in Holland Park compared to Springburn?
Saying that addiction deaths are unconnected with poverty is like saying famines are unconnected with droughts, Show me a deprived area in the UK and I can almost guarantee the smoking/drinking/drug-related deaths will be higher than in affluent areas.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 29, 2011 10:57:11 GMT
Except the heroin and alcohol deaths are a part of the poverty. How many people die of heroin overdoses in Holland Park compared to Springburn? Saying that addiction deaths are unconnected with poverty is like saying famines are unconnected with droughts, Show me a deprived area in the UK and I can almost guarantee the smoking/drinking/drug-related deaths will be higher than in affluent areas. A 34 year old man who dies because he's spent the past 16 years sticking a needle in his arm. A 3 month old baby who dies because he has never had enough to eat. I don't see them as the same thing. And this global catch-all of 'poverty' doesn't do it for me. The 34 year old chose to take drugs. During the course of his addiction he will have been able to access support and substitute prescribing to get off drugs. He chose not to take advantage of these services. The 3 month old baby didn't have any such choices. |
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Post by Weyland on Mar 29, 2011 11:10:37 GMT
Except the heroin and alcohol deaths are a part of the poverty. How many people die of heroin overdoses in Holland Park compared to Springburn? Saying that addiction deaths are unconnected with poverty is like saying famines are unconnected with droughts, Show me a deprived area in the UK and I can almost guarantee the smoking/drinking/drug-related deaths will be higher than in affluent areas. A 34 year old man who dies because he's spent the past 16 years sticking a needle in his arm. A 3 month old baby who dies because he has never had enough to eat. I don't see them as the same thing. And this global catch-all of 'poverty' doesn't do it for me. The 34 year old chose to take drugs. During the course of his addiction he will have been able to access support and substitute prescribing to get off drugs. He chose not to take advantage of these services. The 3 month old baby didn't have any such choices. I know that family. The baby's father is the addict. Tyson and Ryan. The dealer, Tristram, lives in Edinburgh. |
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Post by trubble on Mar 29, 2011 12:32:40 GMT
40% of the astounding millions raised by Comic Relief goes to projects in the UK.
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Post by tarzanontarmazepam on Mar 29, 2011 18:16:38 GMT
Does it actually matter if a person in crisis lives in poverty or not?
If we look at the recent human tragedy in Japan?
Just a thought>
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