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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Apr 20, 2009 19:36:51 GMT
Americans are Americans...heart and soul...The States are United by blood, not by flimsy Eurocrat dictats.
Euros are a disperate bunch who have spent the last 2000 years trying to wipe each other out or steal each others countries.
If you think that the EU will ever speak with one voice, you are dreaming. It was America and the UK who stopped the last war in Europes back yard (balkans)....America, thousands of miles away riding to Europes rescue once again, because the EU is gutless and powerless...a modern day tower of Babel (which will fall in our life time).
AH
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Post by motorist on Apr 20, 2009 19:38:04 GMT
and built a bloody big wall to keep you lot out AH Bloody big wall? Have you seen it? That thing wouldn't have kept rabbits out, let alone thousands of rampaging psychopaths in chequered skirts  Crap Italian manufacturing ;D |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Apr 20, 2009 19:48:21 GMT
I suppose the fact that it was policed by folks who were pretty bloody good at warfare made it look a bit bigger...those Roman coppers would do a bit more than thwack you with a baton. ;D
AH
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Post by swl on Apr 20, 2009 19:55:45 GMT
Riot's entitled to her politics. I'm sure she knows I'm not asking for her vote in the election itself, just a vote to help an ordinary bloke's voice be heard in the campaign. I may not be elected ( probably not be elected), but if I can raise issues that the main parties are forced to give views on, it's all to the good isn't it? Just been out going door to door. Man, that's hard work. One thing that went down well is I intend to publish a schedule online so if I'm meeting Mr X of the power companies (for instance), people can post questions they want asked of him. If I don't come back with answers, then everyone can see I'm not doing my job. Open Democracy is the only way. Spoken to a few of the papers - they haven't heard of Jury Team and just reply with a "Oh. That's nice for you" kind of thing.  |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Apr 20, 2009 20:02:20 GMT
The interwires will bury the press in a decade or so...instant, raw, uncutt news at yer fingerbobs.  I genuinely wish you the very best of luck with what you are doing.  AH |
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Post by swl on Apr 20, 2009 20:06:01 GMT
Thanks Alpha. Anyone gonna give me a foot rub?
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Post by trubble on Apr 20, 2009 20:09:34 GMT
The interwires will bury the press in a decade or so...instant, raw, uncutt news at yer fingerbobs. I genuinely wish you the very best of luck with what you are doing. AH No, the internet is becoming as useless as useful as time goes by because you have to wade through so much rubbish to find the truth. In a decade the internet will either be 2 or 3 tier with people paying for the good stuff or such a clogged up mess that people will be reaching for the press again. |
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Apr 20, 2009 20:11:20 GMT
Foot rub? Yeah, sure...
"RG, SWL needs his tootsies rubbed..."
AH
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Post by trubble on Apr 20, 2009 20:11:22 GMT
One thing that went down well is I intend to publish a schedule online so if I'm meeting Mr X of the power companies (for instance), people can post questions they want asked of him. That idea impressed me too.  |
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Post by everso on Apr 20, 2009 22:38:07 GMT
Foot rub? Yeah, sure... "RG, SWL needs his tootsies rubbed..."AH That's MY job, if you don't mind. I am his English secretary after all. Put your feet on my lap swl. Oh, you can't reach? |
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Post by everso on Apr 20, 2009 22:45:16 GMT
Americans are Americans...heart and soul...The States are United by blood, not by flimsy Eurocrat dictats. Euros are a disperate bunch who have spent the last 2000 years trying to wipe each other out or steal each others countries. If you think that the EU will ever speak with one voice, you are dreaming. It was America and the UK who stopped the last war in Europes back yard (balkans)....America, thousands of miles away riding to Europes rescue once again, because the EU is gutless and powerless...a modern day tower of Babel (which will fall in our life time). AH Europe will never speak with one voice. English, French, German, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, Romanian..... the list goes on and on. Until we all speak the same first language we'll never be truly united. Make that first language English too! I'm not learning no furrin language at my time of life. |
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Post by Patrick on Apr 20, 2009 22:58:15 GMT
Spoken to a few of the papers - they haven't heard of Jury Team and just reply with a "Oh. That's nice for you" kind of thing. I was wondering about that. Now you are "inside" the organisation so to speak - have you had any details about "their" way forward? Presumably having a central "Jury Team" HQ/website it's there to put out the propaganda? You're the Spar shop doling out the crisps and the pot noodles they are (surely) the Spar headquarters doing the advertising and getting the people interested in coming to buy your Pot Noodles? Where are the ad campaigns? Will there be any? |
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Post by swl on Apr 21, 2009 7:28:05 GMT
I get the impression that at the candidate selection stage, the candidates are left to sink or swim to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Once the candidates are selected, then campaigning starts for real.
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Post by motorist on Apr 21, 2009 7:32:03 GMT
Is that when you start oiling up and wrestling each other? |
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Post by swl on Apr 21, 2009 8:08:07 GMT
That's when I get the baseball bat out.
Everything I know about politics I learned from Martin Scorsese ;D
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Post by swl on Apr 21, 2009 15:13:14 GMT
OK - accession countries.
It is entirely illogical for countries in the heart of Europe not to be in the EU. It's like having a shopping mall with one shop in the middle that only accepts a different currency. So in principle, we should all be together.
But what concerns me is the pace of change. The new countries are all considerably poorer than EU countries and one of the first things the EU does in new countries is to upgrade the infrastructure - we saw it happen in Scotland & Ireland. This process is ongoing right now in Poland and the like. The cost is horrendous. Every time a new country joins, the EU staggers back a little economically but then recovers. (Think what happened economically when Germany re-unified). So new countries have to be phased in as and when the EU economy can cope. That sets a practical time scale.
The other aspect is these countries desperately want to be in the EU and just the promise acts as a carrot for political reform. Look at the steps Turkey has taken to jump through the hoops the EU set. But the reforms in Turkey have barely taken form. It takes time for these steps to become irreversible. Albania, Serbia etc are only now starting to look at the hurdles.
When a country is politically and socially ready to fit seamlessly into the EU, that is when the decision should be taken, allied with the economic state of the EU at the time.
If we rush to expand, as is suggested in some quarters, it's going to be extremely dangerous economically and cause huge social upheaval throughout Europe. If the doors are thrown open to a country which hasn't reformed, the citizens will naturally rush to leave. That's catastrophically bad for the new member country and destabilising for Europe.
And that's my view.
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Post by Patrick on Apr 21, 2009 15:41:04 GMT
I see we have the second or third lowest rate of VAT in Europe. (when at 17.5%) I wonder if that's going to be the first thing that will get played with when the down turn, turns up. The average rate now seems to be about 19%. It'll be a killer but I wouldn't put it past them to do a phased rise to 19% after next year's return to normal. After all - it went from 15 to 17.5 purely to get the Tories out of their mess.
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Post by swl on Apr 21, 2009 15:56:41 GMT
That's a Westminster issue but the bare truth is we're deeply in debt and the govt, whatever govt, is going to have to raise money. They'd have to wait until the economy's back on it's feet though.
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Post by trubble on Apr 21, 2009 16:23:32 GMT
OK - accession countries. It is entirely illogical for countries in the heart of Europe not to be in the EU. It's like having a shopping mall with one shop in the middle that only accepts a different currency. So in principle, we should all be together. But what concerns me is the pace of change. The new countries are all considerably poorer than EU countries and one of the first things the EU does in new countries is to upgrade the infrastructure - we saw it happen in Scotland & Ireland. This process is ongoing right now in Poland and the like. The cost is horrendous. Every time a new country joins, the EU staggers back a little economically but then recovers. (Think what happened economically when Germany re-unified). So new countries have to be phased in as and when the EU economy can cope. That sets a practical time scale. The other aspect is these countries desperately want to be in the EU and just the promise acts as a carrot for political reform. Look at the steps Turkey has taken to jump through the hoops the EU set. But the reforms in Turkey have barely taken form. It takes time for these steps to become irreversible. Albania, Serbia etc are only now starting to look at the hurdles. When a country is politically and socially ready to fit seamlessly into the EU, that is when the decision should be taken, allied with the economic state of the EU at the time. If we rush to expand, as is suggested in some quarters, it's going to be extremely dangerous economically and cause huge social upheaval throughout Europe. If the doors are thrown open to a country which hasn't reformed, the citizens will naturally rush to leave. That's catastrophically bad for the new member country and destabilising for Europe. And that's my view. So what's your timescale? I agree with you that but it's the equivalent of everso's mum's ''we'll see'' (and my mum's). |
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Post by swl on Apr 21, 2009 16:32:07 GMT
How long's a piece of string? I think we have to be clear to these countries what is expected of them firstly. Then the argument has to be made to the citizens of the EU too, something that should perhaps go to a referendum in the end. We can only really go ahead when everyone is happy with the idea. There will always be some who resist expansion - many with good reason, like myself. But if a compelling case can be made that expansion will benefit the EU and that it can be achieved affordably and with minimal disruption to society - then I could be persuaded.
I do feel though that if a country genuinely reforms it will reach a point where, when the doors are opened, the majority of citizens stay where they are. That's what we should be aiming for. For a situation where a country gets admitted and nobody really notices.
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