|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 10:00:29 GMT
Wouldn't 'anyone' be preferable in your version?
Either way, the 'whom' was there in deference to your attachment to this obsolescent form. I think we can do without it.
|
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 10:35:35 GMT
Riot! Shame on you. The PC phrase these days is "educationally challenged". Errrm...Isn't it? I didn't mean 'differently educated' as a polite way of saying 'thick'. I did mean it literally. Re-reading Rebecca West's 'Grey Falcon . .' at the moment, and she was taught Latin (for instance) as a matter of course. She bemoans that she wasn't also taught Greek (she says it's because of her gender). So it seems like in the early 20th century 'educated' meant or at least implied one knew Latin and Greek. I've also noted that 'toffs' (well, Boris J) seem to have been educated about Roman history. Whereas us not-so-fancy types did the World Wars and mainly 20th century history at school. I have a modern education. A plain education. I was never taught Latin, Greek or Roman history. Furthermore, when I did philosophy one year, I didn't really read Plato; I just read the cheat guide and quoted a lot in my essays. But not reading Plato is the closest I've ever come to all this classical stuff. It just seems like they taught more of it in the past, or that they still teach it, but only to poshos. |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 10:39:08 GMT
Which I think means I'm accusing Jean of being either old or posh . . .sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 10:54:45 GMT
It just seems like they taught more of it in the past, or that they still teach it, but only to poshos. In the 1970s when I hung out with some extreme left-wing types I learned to keep quiet about what I'd studied, or even that I'd studied anything at all, because I got fed up with being lectured on how I'd betrayed my class background. But then I decided that that was stupid because no branch of learning was any more elitist in itself than any other. I don't defend the selective school system, but the fact is that back in the 1950s when I was at school if you made it through the 11+ you had the chance to learn anything the 'poshos' were learning - and why not? When I went to University more than half the students in Classics departments came from State schools. Unfortunately someone decided that the brave new comprehensive school curriculum wasn't going to include Latin and Greek at all. So the ideas that Classics was only for 'poshos' was reborn (although Latin and Greek are making something of a comeback, in schools and in beginners' classes for adults). |
|
|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 10:58:18 GMT
Which I think means I'm accusing Jean of being either old or posh . . .sorry. Cross-posted with yours, riot. I am old, but not posh, as my post explains. (What did you edit out of Nick's post, btw? Has he had an attack of the Toads again?) |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 11:00:47 GMT
Which I think means I'm accusing Jean of being either old or posh . . .sorry. Cross-posted with yours, riot. I am old, but not posh, as my post explains. (What did you edit out of Nick's post, btw? Has he had an attack of the Toads again?) He used your surname. As you may remember from the Orchard I am very DOWN on people using other peoples' names. I don't think he did it maliciously 'though, so I didn't chastise him. I hope you and Nick aren't falling out. |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 11:02:20 GMT
BTW, Uberteen (my eldest) did Latin at her very skanky state comprehensive. But most of the schools don't teach it.
And hardly anyone at her school did it, so I don't see the Classics Department lasting very long.
|
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 11:11:33 GMT
Jean, did you do classics at University?
|
|
|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 11:16:13 GMT
Yes I did.
The sad thing is that most kids don't know anything about it, so if they have a choice they probably don't choose it unless their parents encourage them. (Why did your daughter, btw?)
I taught for years in a very old-fashioned survivng State grammar school where they all had to start Latin, and often they didn't think they wanted to but they were glad afterwards.
The last Latin teaching I did in a school was to a small group in a very diadvantaged primary school - they were too young to be given any kind of choice, and they loved it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 11:20:35 GMT
It isn't actually my surname, and he knows that so he's not really to blame. How long have you got? |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 11:33:42 GMT
Yes I did. The sad thing is that most kids don't know anything about it, so if they have a choice they probably don't choose it unless their parents encourage them. (Why did your daughter, btw?) I taught for years in a very old-fashioned survivng State grammar school where they all had to start Latin, and often they didn't think they wanted to but they were glad afterwards. The last Latin teaching I did in a school was to a small group in a very diadvantaged primary school - they were too young to be given any kind of choice, and they loved it. All pupils at her school had to do a language (as well as English) up to Standard Grade level (the old O Grade level). The normal French was on offer, as well as Urdu (which seemed a bit unfair, as the kids who took Urdu all spoke Urdu at home, so it wasn't exactly the same as an English-speaking kid doing French, was it?) and Latin was the 3rd choice. Uberteen being Uberteen took Latin. She is now learning Chinese as her 'arts' subject at Uni. She did 3 sciences at Higher and is now studying Chemical Engineering, but they make all the first years do an arts subject as well as all the chemistry and maths to stop them being complete geeks. She's great at languages. Picks them up really quickly. But she feels her real strengths lie in the maths/chemistry/physics kind of world. |
|
|
|
Post by everso on Jan 9, 2010 12:12:34 GMT
Yes I did. The sad thing is that most kids don't know anything about it, so if they have a choice they probably don't choose it unless their parents encourage them. (Why did your daughter, btw?) I taught for years in a very old-fashioned survivng State grammar school where they all had to start Latin, and often they didn't think they wanted to but they were glad afterwards. The last Latin teaching I did in a school was to a small group in a very diadvantaged primary school - they were too young to be given any kind of choice, and they loved it. All pupils at her school had to do a language (as well as English) up to Standard Grade level (the old O Grade level). The normal French was on offer, as well as Urdu (which seemed a bit unfair, as the kids who took Urdu all spoke Urdu at home, so it wasn't exactly the same as an English-speaking kid doing French, was it?) and Latin was the 3rd choice. Uberteen being Uberteen took Latin. She is now learning Chinese as her 'arts' subject at Uni. She did 3 sciences at Higher and is now studying Chemical Engineering, but they make all the first years do an arts subject as well as all the chemistry and maths to stop them being complete geeks. She's great at languages. Picks them up really quickly. But she feels her real strengths lie in the maths/chemistry/physics kind of world. And good for her! |
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Jan 9, 2010 14:14:29 GMT
I don't think it's on to compare Nick to the Toad in his birthday thread. This is the fluffy board.
|
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Jan 9, 2010 14:15:47 GMT
It isn't actually my surname, and he knows that so he's not really to blame. How long have you got? And it's your BBC ID, innit? Look, stop falling out you two headbangers. Falling out is for losers. |
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Jan 9, 2010 14:18:50 GMT
Yes I did. The sad thing is that most kids don't know anything about it, so if they have a choice they probably don't choose it unless their parents encourage them. (Why did your daughter, btw?) I taught for years in a very old-fashioned survivng State grammar school where they all had to start Latin, and often they didn't think they wanted to but they were glad afterwards. The last Latin teaching I did in a school was to a small group in a very diadvantaged primary school - they were too young to be given any kind of choice, and they loved it. I wish I had been given no choice but to learn Latin and other classical studies. I feel I am missing so much. For some reason it was much more important to offer me classes in where to place casseroles in oven, top, middle or bottom shelf, and how to make scissor racks from cheap pieces of wood and how to feel comfortable about crying in public. I never use those skills.  |
|
|
|
Post by Weyland on Jan 9, 2010 15:07:37 GMT
I have a modern education. A plain education. I was never taught Latin, Greek or Roman history. I was taught Latin, and I'm very, very pleased I was. I would've cheerfully learned Greek as well, but it wasn't available to the science-side A-Level pupils. The arts bunch could choose it, though hardly any did.. You didn't learn Roman history? Shameful. I just assumed it was standard, like English and Maths. Mind you, my Primary school was only about five km from Hadrian's Wall, and my Grammar school less than 200 metres. [Please note that H's Wall at no point forms the Border. Never has, seeing as neither Scotland nor England existed at the time it was built, nor for centuries after. All of it quite a way inside England.] |
|
|
|
Post by everso on Jan 9, 2010 15:57:47 GMT
We did Roman history at primary school, and Medieval history - as a kid, I loved all the torturing that went on in the Middle Ages. Fascinating.
The first thing we studied in history at my secondary school (a comprehensive - only the second one in Essex and an >ahem< innovation, apparently) was the Ancient Egyptians, which I loved. Anyone else remember what a shadoof was used for?
We also studied the English Civil War, but I found that a bit boring. However, I remember being taken to task for spelling "Parliament" several different ways in the course of one essay.
Probably because it was in the 1960s and therefore not much time had passed since WW2, but we didn't cover the world wars at all. However, I've often felt like I lived through it all, having heard countless stories from my mum, dad and aunt. The thing I did learn about WW1 (apart from my gt. grandfather on my dad's side being blown to bits during the Battle of Loos) was that my grandfather on my mum's side sat in a trench for weeks on end, never taking his boots off, and eating bully beef all the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 16:12:01 GMT
Don't get me wrong; we 'did' the Romans at Primary School.
But I wouldn't have called it any kind of history. It was just stuff about how they lived and so on. In particular I remember we (as a class) made a mosaic based on Roman mosaics. I seem to remember we used eggshells, but that seems unlikely in retrospect.
I haven't a clue which Emperor did which. It's taken my interest in modern Balkan history to force me to understand the West and East empires, and Byzantium and all that, and even then I don't understand it very well. That's Gothboy's speciality!
|
|
|
|
Post by jean on Jan 9, 2010 17:32:55 GMT
And it's your BBC ID, innit? Look, stop falling out you two headbangers. Falling out is for losers. Let me make this quite clear. I only asked riot if what she'd edited out of Nick's post had been the sort of thing she'd had to edit out of the Toad's. I'm not falling out with him over his using my name! Our disagreement is more of a grammatico-philosophical nature. (And I'm right.) (And he doesn't like that.) |
|
|
|
Post by riotgrrl on Jan 9, 2010 17:38:56 GMT
To be 100% clear - all I did was change 'Ms X' to 'Jean'.
(Only it wasn't X.)
No show here. Nothing to see. Move along folks.
|
|
A.P.P.S
S C 
